PowerLabs checking in here. Hi guys :)

 Hi guys,
 
 I'm joining the forum, so I figured I'd say "hi". I guess I am what you'd call an "import" guy; my first car was a '99 2.5RS with a pityful 165hp N/A 4 cylinder engine. Over 3 years I swapped the motor and drivetrain to a forged piston, larger turbo, ported and polished 2L turbocharged STI engine that spun to 8100RPMs under 20lbs of boost and put down an honest 320horsepower to the ground. The car itself weighted sub 2800lbs and would make some incredible all wheel drive launches, as well as consume all kinds of parts at regular intervals.
 

 
 When my 4rth engine blew up, only a few weeks after my 3rd transmission failure, I decided it was time to sell it (losing a TON of money) and buy something more reliable; I got a low mileage 2005 Subaru STI. Unlike the RS, which had every single suspension, brake and drivetrain upgrade conceivable, this one had a simple full exhaust, larger intercooler, retune and some mild suspension and brake upgrades. The brakes and handling (assisted by a computer controlled electromagnetic center differential that splits the power bias as needed to control oversteer and understeer) were AMAZING. The power, however, in a car that was over 400lbs heavier than my previous vehicle, left a lot to be desired.
 

 
 Then one of the local low lifes where I live ran a stop sign and destroyed the STI. I always wanted to put a bigger turbo on it, crank up the boost, and make good power numbers (around 400 at the wheels) for a fast daily driver.
 Trouble is, I am moving to California, and under desert heat, with 91 octane, 400 at the wheels will either not happen, or come at the cost of a lot of lag and probably not much reliability. Oh yeah, it also won't pass any kind of emissions test.
 
 So now I'm buying a black 2003 Corvette Z06... Hoping I won't miss the STI brakes or the traction I had with full time AWD. And looking forward to all the power and torque, of course ;)
 
 BTW here is my web page (has some stuff on my cars and research): http://www.powerlabs.org/

Welcome, looks like you have had a little bit of a journey to the vette. Just to let you know at the track I have never been out launched by an STi or an evo. Not saying a heavily modified one wouldn't out launch me because they would but stock or lightly modified vs my car it's no contest. I was in the market for an Evo before I got my vette, I test drove one and was not satisfied with the power or gearing. As far as your concern with breaking goes, if you don't like the stock brakes replace them, I did and haven't looked back. Enjoy the new ride!

WEelcome to CF!
We won't hold the "import" thing against ya.
You sound like a performance guy, you won't regret gettin' a Vette!
Put up some pics when ya get your Z06.

Welcome to the Corvette Forum!!
 
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chargedvette02

Welcome, looks like you have had a little bit of a journey to the vette. Just to let you know at the track I have never been out launched by an STi or an evo. Not saying a heavily modified one wouldn't out launch me because they would but stock or lightly modified vs my car it's no contest. I was in the market for an Evo before I got my vette, I test drove one and was not satisfied with the power or gearing. As far as your concern with breaking goes, if you don't like the stock brakes replace them, I did and haven't looked back. Enjoy the new ride!

 
 You should've seen my STI before it was wrecked then ;) I had launch control and flat foot shifting programmed into the ECU: I would hold the throttle down together with the clutch, and by bouncing into a secondary rev limiter the turbo would build 10PSI of boost just sitting still. Then by holding the gas to the floor between shifts I could maintain 18PSI between shifts as well. Here's a video of the launch control in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhzs7Tefr40
 
 Plus, remember, this is not a launch with hot tires on a specially treated surface; my RS ran an 11.8 second 1/4 on the street, with 225 45 17 Falken street tires.

Welcome to the site. You'll love your vette as much if not more than the other great cars you've had. With your tuning ability just think what you will be able to do with the vette. Like Starship said ....to me a motor head is a motor head.  again, welcome to a great place with great folks. Cheers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PowerLabs

quote:

ORIGINAL: chargedvette02

Welcome, looks like you have had a little bit of a journey to the vette. Just to let you know at the track I have never been out launched by an STi or an evo. Not saying a heavily modified one wouldn't out launch me because they would but stock or lightly modified vs my car it's no contest. I was in the market for an Evo before I got my vette, I test drove one and was not satisfied with the power or gearing. As far as your concern with breaking goes, if you don't like the stock brakes replace them, I did and haven't looked back. Enjoy the new ride!

You should've seen my STI before it was wrecked then ;) I had launch control and flat foot shifting programmed into the ECU: I would hold the throttle down together with the clutch, and by bouncing into a secondary rev limiter the turbo would build 10PSI of boost just sitting still. Then by holding the gas to the floor between shifts I could maintain 18PSI between shifts as well. Here's a video of the launch control in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhzs7Tefr40

Plus, remember, this is not a launch with hot tires on a specially treated surface; my RS ran an 11.8 second 1/4 on the street, with 225 45 17 Falken street tires.

 
11.8s are nice, where do you live? I run very low 12's up at 6000 feet above sea level with 1.9-2.2 60 foot times( I know average at best but all the STi's I have seen run at Bandimere run mid to high 14's, not very impressive if you ask me), but I have to put between 295s and 305s on my car and they are street tires as well. I think with drag radials up here I would hit high 11s with 1.6-1.7 60 foot times. I think in cali I would be very low 11's with drs and mid 11's with my street tires. What did you run for 60 foot times with that anyway?

14s? Are you sure you're not racing base model Imprezas with the non turbo engine and a big wing? Or is everyone you are racing not used to a manual transmission? Wait, they know you are racing them, right?
 STOCK STI's have broken into the 12s with a decent driver. I think the factory spec is 13.1 or somewhere in that range?
 
 Anyways. I'm in Upper Peninsula Michigan, the elevation here is 1093ft. I ran a 12.6 second 1/4 mile on Bridgestone Blizzak Revo 1 (that's a snow tire rated at 90 miles an hour) sized 205 55 16s when the weather was in the mid 30s F. Oh, the beauty of all wheel drive. You will NEVER see a corvette do that. Or win an ice race, or a rallycross... etc ;)
 But then again I'm not living in Michigan any more and I chose the vette because I also think it is the fastest car for the money when AWD stops being a requirement. We will see; I will let you know what I think once I drive it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PowerLabs

14s? Are you sure you're not racing base model Imprezas with the non turbo engine and a big wing? Or is everyone you are racing not used to a manual transmission? Wait, they know you are racing them, right?
STOCK STI's have broken into the 12s with a decent driver. I think the factory spec is 13.1 or somewhere in that range?

Anyways. I'm in Upper Peninsula Michigan, the elevation here is 1093ft. I ran a 12.6 second 1/4 mile on Bridgestone Blizzak Revo 1 (that's a snow tire rated at 90 miles an hour) sized 205 55 16s when the weather was in the mid 30s F. Oh, the beauty of all wheel drive. You will NEVER see a corvette do that. Or win an ice race, or a rallycross... etc ;)
But then again I'm not living in Michigan any more and I chose the vette because I also think it is the fastest car for the money when AWD stops being a requirement. We will see; I will let you know what I think once I drive it.

 
Not anywhere near 12's at 6000 feet of elevation man LOL, it plays a huge part. Factory specs are rated at sea level, the fastest STi or evo at bandimere out of about 7 was a 13.6 and this was over multiple runs and he had a bigger turbo.... LMAO. Stocks were anywhere from 14.8-14.2, put it this way, typhoons where running faster than they were. The typhoons were not stock of course but still. BTW stock specs from car and driver for the 293 hp 07 STi at sea level was running 13.4 1/4 mile times.... Thats a huge difference over 13.1. Altitude correction for a 13.4 second car at 6000 feet of elevation = 14.1 second car with a good driver. Facts are facts, if you don't believe it just google altitude correction factor. This info is also where I'm getting my info that my car would run very low 11s with drs and mid 11s with my street tires even where you lived in Michigan.
 
Also you said "Wait, they know your racing right" I would hope so since this is at the track on test and tune night. I mean would you line up at the tree and go hey, I wonder if that guy is going to race me? Another thing, blizzaks are very very very very very soft tires, which makes them very very very very easy to gain traction with............... I would have been more impressed if it would have been done with run flats on the car. Also you hype up AWD but you needed blizzaks???? I used blizzaks on my mustang and got around all winter in Colorado without AWD.... So my stang could do what your STi did???? I'm just curious, not trying to start crap or anything.
 
You still didn't tell me your 60 foot times, I just want to see how big of a lead you would have out of a dig. I would say average on street tires for me is a 2.0 which is pretty crappy, I should be around 1.7 with drs on the car.
 
Here is a link, STis and Evos are just very average cars up here in Denver, I guess thats why I went a different direction.
http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/12084/2007-subaru-wrx-sti-limited.html   
http://www.wallaceracing.com/altitudecorrection.htm#superorturbo 

quote:

ORIGINAL: chargedvette02

 Another thing, blizzaks are very very very very very soft tires, which makes them very very very very easy to gain traction with............... I would have been more impressed if it would have been done with run flats on the car. Also you hype up AWD but you needed blizzaks???? I used blizzaks on my mustang and got around all winter in Colorado without AWD.... So my stang could do what your STi did???? I'm just curious, not trying to start crap or anything.

 
 AHAHAHAHA!!! You're kidding right? Or are you one of the people I pull out of the ditch every winter because they believe that somehow if the drivetrain transfers power to all 4 wheels, then it must also somehow grant their car magical powers when it comes to cornering and stopping. Really hope you just said that to make some kind of ridiculous argument that a front heavy rear wheel drive econobox  is somehow comparable to a rally car in the snow and that you at least understand how traction works.
 Also you've clearly never driven on snow tires. They might be soft, but they are also the narrowest tires you can get in any size and have more siping and thread blocks than any other kind of tire, and as such provide worse traction on dry pavement than even the cheapest all seasons money can buy. My car will usually make full boost in 1st gear and never even chirp the tires, but with snows I can spin all 4 in 1st and 2nd if I try hard. There is a good reason you've never seen anyone at a drag strip with them.
 
 Answering your question, my best 60ft launches were usually in the 1.6X range. This is not terribly unusual for all wheel drive cars on street tires. It helps a lot that I could hold each gear to 8000RPMs and reduce the number of shifts overall.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PowerLabs

quote:

ORIGINAL: chargedvette02

Another thing, blizzaks are very very very very very soft tires, which makes them very very very very easy to gain traction with............... I would have been more impressed if it would have been done with run flats on the car. Also you hype up AWD but you needed blizzaks???? I used blizzaks on my mustang and got around all winter in Colorado without AWD.... So my stang could do what your STi did???? I'm just curious, not trying to start crap or anything.

AHAHAHAHA!!! You're kidding right? Or are you one of the people I pull out of the ditch every winter because they believe that somehow if the drivetrain transfers power to all 4 wheels, then it must also somehow grant their car magical powers when it comes to cornering and stopping. Really hope you just said that to make some kind of ridiculous argument that a front heavy rear wheel drive econobox  is somehow comparable to a rally car in the snow and that you at least understand how traction works.
Also you've clearly never driven on snow tires. They might be soft, but they are also the narrowest tires you can get in any size and have more siping and thread blocks than any other kind of tire, and as such provide worse traction on dry pavement than even the cheapest all seasons money can buy. My car will usually make full boost in 1st gear and never even chirp the tires, but with snows I can spin all 4 in 1st and 2nd if I try hard. There is a good reason you've never seen anyone at a drag strip with them.

Answering your question, my best 60ft launches were usually in the 1.6X range. This is not terribly unusual for all wheel drive cars on street tires. It helps a lot that I could hold each gear to 8000RPMs and reduce the number of shifts overall.

 
Have never tried to drive the vette in the snow and I drove the stang for 2 years in the harsh colorado winters on BLIZZAKS with no incidents, I drove my Nissan 240sx RWD car in the colorado winters for 2 years without blizzaks on all seasons with no incidents; so does that make my 93 240sx a rally car? Just trying to figure out the "AWD FACTOR" your only doing 1.6 60 foots and you think AWD is a god send?!??!?! So 1.6 60 foots bouncing off the rev limiter and still running high 11's........ WOW 1.6 60 foots for me would almost be high 10's. Again you act likes it's an accomplishment doing a mid 12 on snow tires...  Like I said if they were run flats on a cold day it would have been more impressive.
 
Do you finally believe me that those STi's were running 14.2s up to high 14s now? You didn't touch on the subject and just wanted to make sure you weren't ignoring facts.
 
STi's, EVOS, and even stock C5 and C6 corvettes are VERY AVERAGE cars here in Denver. C5 Z06's run mid 13's up here but are rated for what from the factory high 12's. That means your best run in Michigan (which was 11.8 right)? Would have been a mid to high 12 which is still really impressive because of the altitude. Again i'm not trying ot start crap, just trying to figure out the facts.

 You are missing the point here...
 
 My STI didn't "get me by" in winter: it won trophies at rallycross events, placed top 5 consistently in every single ice race I attended, and then, when the ice melted, it placed first in its class at various local and regional autocross events, and could run an 11 second 1/4 mile to boot, even though it was not a drag car, did not run drag tires, and I am not a drag racer.
 Most importantly, it was a car that was always fast, year round; not something you do a massive burnout with to heat up the tires and then tear down a specially treated drag strip surface to accomplish an "OK" 1/4 mile time. Get it?
 It wasn't the fastest thing in the world, but it was fast enough and it was fast all the time. Go race your mustang on a polished ice surface against STIs and EVOs, get a trophy, and I will call it a rally car ;)
 
 Get the facts now? I'm not here to argue with you which car is better, I am sharing with the forum what I had, I plan on getting a corvette and I'm sharing what I will miss about my STI. Sorry dude but your mustang wouldn't hold a candle to even a base model impreza in the winter if they both had the same tires. Much like the best rally car in the world won't move a foot using drag slicks on a snow covered road... Everything is a compromise, and for where I lived, I thought I had a pretty good all around car. Now that I'm moving out of the snow belt, I think the Z06 might be a better compromise. We'll see... You should be aware that there are other fast cars out there that don't bear the Chevrolet badge though ;) On a typical road that is not perfectly smooth and not necessarily clean, an all wheel drive car will hook up and go in ways that no rear wheel drive car could ever dream of, and that's something I enjoyed having as a daily driver. I hope the corvette does launch as well as you say it does on everyday situations, again, I guess I'll find that out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PowerLabs

You are missing the point here...

My STI didn't "get me by" in winter: it won trophies at rallycross events, placed top 5 consistently in every single ice race I attended, and then, when the ice melted, it placed first in its class at various local and regional autocross events, and could run an 11 second 1/4 mile to boot, even though it was not a drag car, did not run drag tires, and I am not a drag racer.
Most importantly, it was a car that was always fast, year round; not something you do a massive burnout with to heat up the tires and then tear down a specially treated drag strip surface to accomplish an "OK" 1/4 mile time. Get it?
It wasn't the fastest thing in the world, but it was fast enough and it was fast all the time. Go race your mustang on a polished ice surface against STIs and EVOs, get a trophy, and I will call it a rally car ;)

Get the facts now? I'm not here to argue with you which car is better, I am sharing with the forum what I had, I plan on getting a corvette and I'm sharing what I will miss about my STI. Sorry dude but your mustang wouldn't hold a candle to even a base model impreza in the winter if they both had the same tires. Much like the best rally car in the world won't move a foot using drag slicks on a snow covered road... Everything is a compromise, and for where I lived, I thought I had a pretty good all around car. Now that I'm moving out of the snow belt, I think the Z06 might be a better compromise. We'll see... You should be aware that there are other fast cars out there that don't bear the Chevrolet badge though ;) On a typical road that is not perfectly smooth and not necessarily clean, an all wheel drive car will hook up and go in ways that no rear wheel drive car could ever dream of, and that's something I enjoyed having as a daily driver. I hope the corvette does launch as well as you say it does on everyday situations, again, I guess I'll find that out.

In it's class is the key phrase, you were in a lower class in the auto x than the cobras and vettes were. Also I don't have a mustang, I actually was going to trade it in for a EVO IX but the evo was weak and the gearing was horrible so I got a vette with a supercharger on it. I'm not just a chevy guy at all like you make it out to be. I LOVE Nissans; the best car I have ever owned was my 1993 240sx which would have been in the same class as your STi in auto x and is a RWD car.

Here is a link of a N/A vette on the bottle vs an AWD upgraded evo IX. Doesn't look like the AWD evo gets even 1/4 of a car lead out of the hole and he is bouncing off the rev limiter. The vette wins by 3 cars in the end BTW.
You need to fast foward to the end of the video, the beginning is just prep.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/9bc80e6e-c608-4aee-8cc7-983100ff4afa.htm

 Lol... Sorry, but when you swap an entirely different motor, slap on a bigger turbo, do full coilovers, larger brakes, bigger turbo, remapped ECU for higher boost, you don't run in the "stock" class any more, so my PAX multiplier for "Street Modified" was as bad or worse than what the very fastest cars in the race would see. Maybe if you did a bit more than just drag race you wouldn't make pointless comparisons any more?
 
 So your video of ONE corvette beating ONE evo proves something somehow?
 Wait, I thought high horsepower rear wheel drive cars were good from a roll... Why do all of these lose even though they have 600+HP?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os7eKSAq-Y8
 
 Ummm... Lets see... Different cars different story? You know what assuming does ;)
 Case in point: anecdotal evidence means nothing and makes you look desperate in an argument. I would never buy an EVO, but I am not dumb enough to think that just because my car has an engine designed in the 50's with pushrods and a large displacement it somehow makes my car the king of the road; anyone can make something faster with enough money; the fastest Honda civics run 10s, the fastest Eagle Talon runs 7s, the fastest STI runs 9s, the fastest EVO runs 8s, etc etc... Different cars different outcomes, useless comparisons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PowerLabs

Lol... Sorry, but when you swap an entirely different motor, slap on a bigger turbo, do full coilovers, larger brakes, bigger turbo, remapped ECU for higher boost, you don't run in the "stock" class any more, so my PAX multiplier for "Street Modified" was as bad or worse than what the very fastest cars in the race would see. Maybe if you did a bit more than just drag race you wouldn't make pointless comparisons any more?

So your video of ONE corvette beating ONE evo proves something somehow?
Wait, I thought high horsepower rear wheel drive cars were good from a roll... Why do all of these lose even though they have 600+HP?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os7eKSAq-Y8

Ummm... Lets see... Different cars different story? You know what assuming does ;)
Case in point: anecdotal evidence means nothing and makes you look desperate in an argument. I would never buy an EVO, but I am not dumb enough to think that just because my car has an engine designed in the 50's with pushrods and a large displacement it somehow makes my car the king of the road; anyone can make something faster with enough money; the fastest Honda civics run 10s, the fastest Eagle Talon runs 7s, the fastest STI runs 9s, the fastest EVO runs 8s, etc etc... Different cars different outcomes, useless comparisons.

So you got my 240sx was stock from what again????? I said you werent in the same class as vettes and cobras and would be in the same class as my 240sx. You think I only know 1/4 mile races? LMAO, back when I had it I would have put lots of money on the 240 against my 560 hp 540 tq vette. Just google nissan 240sx and see what they are all about with the engine swaps and turbo swaps people do. Would make your 11.8 STi look like a stock civic in auto x or 1/4 mile and for a fraction of the price of your $35k dollar car at that.

BTW that evo was a 600 AWHP car vs a RWD vette on a 150 shot.... He didn't even come close to ripping him out of the hole. I just want to point out your perception of AWD is not as good as you think it is. Also you keep acting like I think my car is king of the road... I'm not a Chevy fan boy at all. I drove a 240sx which is an import, I was looking at EVO IXs and MKIV Toyota Supras before I made the choice of the vette. It came down to which car got more looks and price of what your getting vs miles on the car. The EVO gets few looks and made fun of because of the big wing(I still like it though). The 93.5 - 98 Supra gets a huge amout of looks and even people stopping to take pictures of it with their camera phones and my vette with all my mods, lowered, bigger breaks etc.. gets many looks aswell; not like a supra but still. It came down to I could get a supra with 40k miles on it for $45k dollars or my vette with 28k miles on it for $26k.
 
Sorry about the rambling, I'm at work and keep getting interrupted.

Thought you would like this powerlabs. The chase car is a c5 vette, looks like hes keeping up pretty well with that AWD STi through the canyons... That is untill the STi looses control and hits the canyon wall. It is really amazing a poor RWD car could keep up with a AWD  car through the sharp curves of that canyon road huh.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6cmYpJhwm4

quote:

ORIGINAL: chargedvette02

Thought you would like this powerlabs. The chase car is a c5 vette, looks like hes keeping up pretty well with that AWD STi through the canyons... That is untill the STi looses control and hits the canyon wall. It is really amazing a poor RWD car could keep up with a AWD  car through the sharp curves of that canyon road huh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6cmYpJhwm4

 
 What is even more amazing is that I am starting to think that you really believe that proves something...
 
 OK, so if a complete moron was driving the corvette and he spun out, would that somehow also instantly prove the superiority of the other car?
 
 Wait, wait, I get it...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPy6Vfrmmvw&mode=related&search=
STI owns a corvette in the street. What, I thought STIs always lost?
 
Wait, how about... A Corvette Z06, against an STI, and this time from a roll so traction isn't an issue?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtIuHtRefj0
 
 Yup, lost again. Now does this prove anything? Does you going on Youtube and finding a video of some other random corvette with some other random driving beating some random car prove anything? Does me finding a honda civic online that can walk a supercharged Z06 from a roll say anything about honda civics? Do all the Corvette guys at the local autocrosses in Michigan ending up with slower times than all the miatas mean Corvettes don't handle? Is one example enough to prove your point? Only if you're an idiot.
 
 I think you are missing the point here: I said I liked all wheel drive because my AWD car was fast all the time; good luck taking your corvette to an ice race or a rallycross. Or getting around 4 inches of snow for that matter. I said it was great because it had traction every day, every time, regardless of conditions.
 I also said I was looking forward to getting my Z06. I wouldn't waste 30 grand on a car if I thought it was junk. Again, it compromises some things (an interior about as horrible as my girlfriend's 1997 Pontiac Sunfire, for starters) and provides others (pretty good horsepower for the money) much like any other car.
 I do hope most people who own these cars don't feel like they desperately have something to prove like you do (I saw your cardomain page. A "Cars I've raced and beaten" session? Are you serious??? How old are you?) though! Its just a car, its not god's own chariot your are driving, it is not unbeatable, it isn't even that special; its got possibly the most primitive engine outside of a truck (pushrods in 2007... Seriously) and giant leaf spring on the back... Its just good bang for your buck if you want a fast car and have to pass emissions or can't afford something exotic, which is exactly why I'm getting one. I'll be sure to share what I think of it once I take delivery of the car, but as far as I am concerned, my pissing match with you is over. Thanks.

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ORIGINAL: PowerLabs

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ORIGINAL: chargedvette02

Thought you would like this powerlabs. The chase car is a c5 vette, looks like hes keeping up pretty well with that AWD STi through the canyons... That is untill the STi looses control and hits the canyon wall. It is really amazing a poor RWD car could keep up with a AWD  car through the sharp curves of that canyon road huh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6cmYpJhwm4

What is even more amazing is that I am starting to think that you really believe that proves something...

OK, so if a complete moron was driving the corvette and he spun out, would that somehow also instantly prove the superiority of the other car?

Wait, wait, I get it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPy6Vfrmmvw&mode=related&search=
STI owns a corvette in the street. What, I thought STIs always lost?

Wait, how about... A Corvette Z06, against an STI, and this time from a roll so traction isn't an issue?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtIuHtRefj0

Yup, lost again. Now does this prove anything? Does you going on Youtube and finding a video of some other random corvette with some other random driving beating some random car prove anything? Does me finding a honda civic online that can walk a supercharged Z06 from a roll say anything about honda civics? Do all the Corvette guys at the local autocrosses in Michigan ending up with slower times than all the miatas mean Corvettes don't handle? Is one example enough to prove your point? Only if you're an idiot.

I think you are missing the point here: I said I liked all wheel drive because my AWD car was fast all the time; good luck taking your corvette to an ice race or a rallycross. Or getting around 4 inches of snow for that matter. I said it was great because it had traction every day, every time, regardless of conditions.
I also said I was looking forward to getting my Z06. I wouldn't waste 30 grand on a car if I thought it was junk. Again, it compromises some things (an interior about as horrible as my girlfriend's 1997 Pontiac Sunfire, for starters) and provides others (pretty good horsepower for the money) much like any other car.
I do hope most people who own these cars don't feel like they desperately have something to prove like you do (I saw your cardomain page. A "Cars I've raced and beaten" session? Are you serious??? How old are you?) though! Its just a car, its not god's own chariot your are driving, it is not unbeatable, it isn't even that special; its got possibly the most primitive engine outside of a truck (pushrods in 2007... Seriously) and giant leaf spring on the back... Its just good bang for your buck if you want a fast car and have to pass emissions or can't afford something exotic, which is exactly why I'm getting one. I'll be sure to share what I think of it once I take delivery of the car, but as far as I am concerned, my pissing match with you is over. Thanks.

It wasnt a race smart guy, it was a chase car, the vette kept up great and AWD is OVERRATED! The vids you posted were extensively modified cars vs almost stock corvettes....... Does that make you feel better? I posted a 600 AWHP evo getting owend by a 530 RWHP vette. AWD = OVERRATED!  It does have it's nice points but your best 60 foot time was 1.6 right? That is bouncing off the rev limiter, no tire spin and everything else you had done to that car..... So a stock C6 Z06 with DRs will do a 1.7.... MAN AWD IS .1 of a second better.

BTW they use pushrods SMART GUY because they weigh less than DOHC... You do know what that means right??? If your soooooo woried about leaf springs then change them out. You can pick up a nice set of coilovers, you just got to have the $$$$$. Any of the LS engines might be the best engines ever built right behind the Toyota Supra MKIV. You were talking about doing engine swaps with your STi.... Why would you need to do an engine swap with your "MODERN" engine??????? Because they can't handle more than mid 400 hp without blowing up?????

All you STi drivers are the same, you think AWD is gods gift to mankind. I can't wait to go to the track again this Wednesday and watch your $35k STis do mid 14 second 1/4 mile times. When your getting passed by a $10k Typhoon thats an SUV you know something is wrong.

If it makes you feel better I'm 22. Also I know wayyyyy more than you do about the "primitive" LS1 as well as my sorry leaf springs. Would you atleast flatter me and tell me why pushrods are primitive???? Did you  just watch Top Gear and decide to quote Jeremy Clarkson?

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ORIGINAL: chargedvette02
If it makes you feel better I'm 22. Also I know wayyyyy more than you do about the "primitive" LS1 as well as my sorry leaf springs. Would you atleast flatter me and tell me why pushrods are primitive???? Did you  just watch Top Gear and decide to quote Jeremy Clarkson?

 
 Sorry buddy but I have a mechanical engineering degree and probably spent more time working on a car than you've spent owning one.
 
 This is not the forum for me to try and educate you on engine design. Try reading up a little bit on "valvetrain inertia", or try figuring out why 4 valves per cylinder can flow more air in and out of the engine than just 2. If you know ANYTHING about engines you would know that power produced is a direct function of how much air flows in and out of it which is a direct function of displacement and RPM.
 Or maybe just ask yourself why every single car manufacturer except chevy moved away from one single camshaft 40+ years ago... Does Chevrolet know something no one else does?
 Or maybe do other manufacturers just not consider 6000RPM redlines and 65horsepower per litre to be an acceptable performance benchmark for their cars? They make OK power because they have huge engines, nothing else...