NOOB
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NOOB - 12/4/2005 9:25:45 PM
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bkmc24
Posts: 9
Joined: 12/4/2005
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So, im actually new to V8's. i was watching horsepower TV this weekend, and they showed a vette and called it project stinkray. they got me wanting one. ive decided i really want a 72 vette. and i was talking to a friend of mine whos a camaro freak and hes going to be teaching me more about checys and stuff but i just wanted to introduce myself and all, and so if i say something dumb, please correct me lol. im comming from the import scene so you can only imagine how much i have to learn (if its alot). what this kid toldme to do, is a 383 stroker and eventually a S/C. what motor and setup would all of you say is the best, im looking for the vette to be clean and smooth looking but also fast. i would prefer forced induction also. thanks!
Ben
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RE: NOOB - 12/5/2005 12:23:36 AM
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eeyore
Posts: 3
Joined: 12/4/2005
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hey there,
the 383 results from installing a 400 crankshaft(with main journal size reduced)into a 350 block,383's will produce well over 430 hp. and about 450 lb-ft of torque @4000rpm the longer stroke offers more low end and mid range torque( its all about TORQUE! a supercharger will produce over 600 horse and well over 500lb-ft of torque( this being installed on a 350.
hope this gives you some idea!
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RE: NOOB - 12/5/2005 3:02:00 PM
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Lee Willis
Posts: 1952
Joined: 7/27/2005
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A 72 is a really fine year for vettes.
There are a lot of choices for the engine, and they greatly depend on how much money you have. A good clean 72 vette will cost about $20-$25K (unless it is in really good condition and/or a special model in which case it could be over $150K).
The first decision you must make is whether you are going to go with something similar to the engine originally in the car (i.e., carburated, iron block) or install a much newer, fuel injected engine such as an LS-1, 2, or 6 engine (used in 97-2006 vettes).
If you decide to install a modern LS-1, 2, or 6 fuel-injected engine, you can stroke it to 383 (LS1 or 6) or 396 cubic inches (LS2), and you will have your 430 ft lbs 450 HP or more (flywheel) easily, and maybe that much at the rear wheels. You can supercharge it for a lot more. However, this will be a very expensive undertaking: you will need to change out most everything associated with the engine: motor mounts, modify the frame, new radiator (custom or close to that cost), special headers and exhaust, and install a modern trans with custom or nearly custom linkage, etc. You'll need to either switch out for modern or modify power steering, AC, alternator, etc.
Furthermore, realize that even in its most powerful original version, the '72 did not have 450 RWHP (some versions came close). A standard model will need extensive refurbishment and strengtheing of the rear end and suspension to handle the power (I helped a friend with a 400 RWHP 71 vette and it required a lot of $$$ and time to get this right. Also, I'd replace the brakes with more modern ones if I was going to have that much power.
My point is that going the "new engine route" CAN be done but it will cost you a lot to do it well.
By contrast, using a carburated engine will be lower cost and more in keeping with the original car's character. It will cost you MUCH less because (the right type) will fit in the car with almost everything under the hood unmodified and there will not be much more to modify. Headers, etc, and the original type of trans will fit.
However I expect you would have A LOT of trouble getting 430 foot pounds and 450 HP out of a carburated small block, even stroked to 383 cubic inches. Getting 450 HP (even at the flywheel) from a carburated 383 stroker is do-able, but you will have an engine that is pretty ragged to drive on the street. But realize that even 350 or 375 HP in this car is great performance.
My personal option (I've thought about this a lot because this is a project I want to do someday) is the find a reasonably clean small block 71 or 72 4-speed car, and then drop in a small block 427 cubic inch "super stroker" crate engine. This the the very maximum you can push the old, cast-iron small block Chevy to with maximum boring and stroking., and one or two companies offer complete crate engines in this size. A 427 carburated crate engine would run about $8K I'd guess by the time in was in the car and but with the extra 44 cubes over the 383 stroker it could produce 400-450 HP with a carb and decent driveability on the street. Since it is an iron block 350-derivative it ought to fit without too much hassle.
It all depends on how much money you have or want to spend, but the 427 crate route has always struck me as the optimum overall approach to take. Someday I hope to do it: I just have to convince my wife that we need another car (this could take a long time)
< Message edited by Lee Willis -- 12/5/2005 6:10:02 PM >
_____________________________
2007 Aston Martin Vantage Prodrive
Lincoln MKZ "Grandfather car"
''98 Z28 with iron LS 408, NOS, tricks, street driven mid 9s (sold to my youngest son for $1, Aug 28, ''07)
''02 SCd 427 cid ZO6, 704 RWHP, sold Aug. 28, ''07
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RE: NOOB - 12/5/2005 9:08:35 PM
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bkmc24
Posts: 9
Joined: 12/4/2005
Status: offline
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So, your saying all motor i could get about 350 out of the 383? and then how much would it help to put a procharger on it? thatd be a decent gain wouldnt it?
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RE: 383 torque and hp - 12/6/2005 12:16:50 AM
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eeyore
Posts: 3
Joined: 12/4/2005
Status: offline
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engine: 383 (DYNO TESTED ENGINE COMBINATION)
max hp 431@5500
max torque452@4000
brodix -8 cylinder heads with 2.02-in. intake, 1.60-in exhaust valves, 68cc combustion chambers, manley pistons(part #49453),5.7-in. connecting rods, edelbrock performer manifold, holley 750cfm carb, 1-3/4in diam. headers, msd distributor, 36 degrees total mechanical advance.
camshaft: comp cams special hydraulic roller. advertised duration:280/286. durationat.050-in lift: 224/230. lift:.525/.560
the roller cam has a relatively quick valve opening and closing velocities provide excellent airflow potential with comparitively short total duration- this adds up to a fairly smooth idle-in spite of all the power
p.177 of SMALL BLOCK CHEVY PERFORMANCE by DAVE EMANUEL
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RE: 383 torque and hp - 12/7/2005 10:21:01 AM
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Lee Willis
Posts: 1952
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline
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Look, you can get just about any amount of power you want out of a Chevy small blcok, IF: a) you spend enough money, and b) you are willing to put up with less than streetable, near-stock driveability. Look at theJanuary issue of HOT ROD, at their annual pump gas drag shootout. these are streetable cars. But these guys spend a lot and put up with constant failures and maintenance ande barely streetable behavior.
A naturally aspirated, carburated 383 will begin to be "obviously not stock" at around 300 RWHP, and become expensive and not too driveable at somewhere over 400 RWHP. going to an extreme stroker will really help the situation in your target range of 450 HP.
A fuel injected GEN III engine of around 383 cubes can go to 425-450 RWHP without too much problem, normally aspirated.
Supercharged, either engine can do more, much more (look at my posting under General Tech on getting more than 500 RWHP)although i do not like carburated supercharged engines (have to puressurize the carb, I'd on't really like that). Its what you want in street behavior and driveability, and how much money you want to spend.
_____________________________
2007 Aston Martin Vantage Prodrive
Lincoln MKZ "Grandfather car"
''98 Z28 with iron LS 408, NOS, tricks, street driven mid 9s (sold to my youngest son for $1, Aug 28, ''07)
''02 SCd 427 cid ZO6, 704 RWHP, sold Aug. 28, ''07
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RE: 383 torque and hp - 12/7/2005 12:44:06 PM
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Lee Willis
Posts: 1952
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eeyore
engine: 383 (DYNO TESTED ENGINE COMBINATION)
max hp 431@5500
max torque452@4000
brodix -8 cylinder heads with 2.02-in. intake, 1.60-in exhaust valves, 68cc combustion chambers, manley pistons(part #49453),5.7-in. connecting rods, edelbrock performer manifold, holley 750cfm carb, 1-3/4in diam. headers, msd distributor, 36 degrees total mechanical advance.
camshaft: comp cams special hydraulic roller. advertised duration:280/286. durationat.050-in lift: 224/230. lift:.525/.560
the roller cam has a relatively quick valve opening and closing velocities provide excellent airflow potential with comparitively short total duration- this adds up to a fairly smooth idle-in spite of all the power
p.177 of SMALL BLOCK CHEVY PERFORMANCE by DAVE EMANUEL
I have that book. It is worth getting that and John Lingenfelter's book on building small block Chevrolet engines, too - I really like the way Lingenfelter explains why he did things the way he did.
My youngest boy and I actually built very close to this exact engine in the mid 90s when he was in high school: good father-son bonding project. It was a 350 stroked and bored to 388 cubic inches (bored to the max) and used a Crower camshaft that was about 230/236+/.55 lift, which had the rapid opening profile.
It tested at around 435/450 on an engine dyno, and right at 385 RWHP in a manual trans Camaro. It idled okay although no one would have mistaken it for stock, and had reasonable low end torque: for a daily driver I would have sacrificed about 25 HP for alot more and lower torque curve, but it was a good street strip engine and we thrashed it forever before selling the car in 99 with about 45K miles and more than 200 quarter mile passes on it. We last heard about it several years later and it was still running although it had burned some exhaust valves after the guy had put in a more aggressive cam and not propoerly re-jetted the carbs for good F/A ratio.
_____________________________
2007 Aston Martin Vantage Prodrive
Lincoln MKZ "Grandfather car"
''98 Z28 with iron LS 408, NOS, tricks, street driven mid 9s (sold to my youngest son for $1, Aug 28, ''07)
''02 SCd 427 cid ZO6, 704 RWHP, sold Aug. 28, ''07
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RE: 383 torque and hp - 12/9/2005 12:12:56 AM
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bkmc24
Posts: 9
Joined: 12/4/2005
Status: offline
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so, those two books sound like good things to put on my christmas list lol thanks guys
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RE: 383 torque and hp - 12/18/2005 12:36:41 PM
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bkmc24
Posts: 9
Joined: 12/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lee Willis
quote:
ORIGINAL: eeyore
engine: 383 (DYNO TESTED ENGINE COMBINATION)
max hp 431@5500
max torque452@4000
brodix -8 cylinder heads with 2.02-in. intake, 1.60-in exhaust valves, 68cc combustion chambers, manley pistons(part #49453),5.7-in. connecting rods, edelbrock performer manifold, holley 750cfm carb, 1-3/4in diam. headers, msd distributor, 36 degrees total mechanical advance.
camshaft: comp cams special hydraulic roller. advertised duration:280/286. durationat.050-in lift: 224/230. lift:.525/.560
the roller cam has a relatively quick valve opening and closing velocities provide excellent airflow potential with comparitively short total duration- this adds up to a fairly smooth idle-in spite of all the power
p.177 of SMALL BLOCK CHEVY PERFORMANCE by DAVE EMANUEL
I have that book. It is worth getting that and John Lingenfelter's book on building small block Chevrolet engines, too - I really like the way Lingenfelter explains why he did things the way he did.
My youngest boy and I actually built very close to this exact engine in the mid 90s when he was in high school: good father-son bonding project. It was a 350 stroked and bored to 388 cubic inches (bored to the max) and used a Crower camshaft that was about 230/236+/.55 lift, which had the rapid opening profile.
It tested at around 435/450 on an engine dyno, and right at 385 RWHP in a manual trans Camaro. It idled okay although no one would have mistaken it for stock, and had reasonable low end torque: for a daily driver I would have sacrificed about 25 HP for alot more and lower torque curve, but it was a good street strip engine and we thrashed it forever before selling the car in 99 with about 45K miles and more than 200 quarter mile passes on it. We last heard about it several years later and it was still running although it had burned some exhaust valves after the guy had put in a more aggressive cam and not propoerly re-jetted the carbs for good F/A ratio.
so a question for you, ive been wondering this for a while, what happens when someone re-jets their carb? what is going on when that happens and whats the benefit of it. and another question, if i were to put a procharger on, would i have to do the fuel injection swap or will it fit on the carbed motor. i know a blower will fit on it but i dont want something that huge comming out of my hood lol.
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