Concerned owner needs some help
 

if you read some of my other posts, I am a new C5 owner...just picked it up last thursday. its a 99 with 70k, removable roof coupe, 6 speed with every option I think. I just got a few warning messages on my car and they have me kinda worried. I turned out on to a 45mph road and gave it full throttle through 1st gear, then pulled in second and floored it until about 50mph. sometime during the 2nd gear run warning lights came on all over the instrument cluster (traction control light, and abs light) and the LCD panel displayed warnings saying service ABS system and service traction control system. I was quite concerned about this. the messages stayed there until I turned the car off and then they were gone. later I went back to the exact same place and tried it again. exact same result. beeping, warning lights and messages. I was getting even more worried that this car which I was so happy to get might have something serious wrong with it. it is a "Certified" pre-owned vehicle, they have a 110 point inspection on it and everything, and traction control was on the list...anyway. I decided to see if I could learn anything more about this, so later I Went to an empty parking lot. took it up to about 20mph and slammed on the brakes. the ABS definitely worked properly I want around again and dropped the clutch at 4000RPMs, the tires chirped and I got a message saying that traction control had activated. no errors or warnings though, it appeared to be fine. then just to make sure it was working, I turned traction control off and did it again. definintely a difference, I left a big cloud of smoke behind even with a 2 second burn. then I went down to another road, this one a 55mph, from about 10mph in 1st gear I floored it, then shifted to second and gave it full throttle again. I noticed that the traction control activated message did appear, but this time no warnings, lights, or beeping at all. I know the systems work from the individual tests. the last time I had no problems, but I got those rather scary warning messages twice by doing the same thing. I have a 7 day return policy on this car. it would break my heart to have to give it back, but it has a number of what I considered to be minor quirks or problems (telescoping wheel doesn't work, climate control LCD is dim, belt is squeaking etc) all things I felt I could fix myself very cheaply considering thta I got it for a few grand under the market value. But of course if this car has some serious problems with it I might need to seriously consider utilizing that 7 day return policy and going on the hunt for a new one. please let me know if anyone knows anything about this or anything I should do. I disconected the battery just to clear the computer just in case. sometimes it can help with strange codes poping up in cars. but I could really use some advice if anyone has any.

thanks!

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

From my CF archives,

"This is a very common problem that has 3 or 4 different answers ranging in price from free all the way upto 2000 dollars.

Bill Curlee has many good posts on this problem.

1. the first potential problem is a bad male/female connection between the main wiring harness and the wheel speed sensor.

2. the next one up is a bad sensor/hub

3. third is a bad main wiring harness

4. last and most expensive is a bad ebcm.

Any and all of these have been known to set ABS/TC codes...

you really need to know what the codes are to diagnose this better...this can be done by holding down the #4 button and hitting the #1 button 3 times within 10 sec while holding #4. it should then scroll through the codes."

Good luck.

Dave

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

okay, well that's so much for that information. I am very concerned about this problem. what is the likelyhood that this indicates there is a problem which may get worse? is this likely to progress into complete TC or ABS failure? this 99 is a "certified" used car. The dealership made almost no money on it because they paid very close to what I did for it as a trade, so they aren't very willing to help me fix things. however if I bought a certified pre-owned and its got serious problems with its traction control and anti-lock brakes...these are two of the most important safety devices on the car. I really think they should fix it, even if they loose money on the sale! I mean if they sold a car and the owner discovers the next day that the airbags are disabled or malfunctioning for some reason, you would think the dealer would have to do something about that. I mean it was supposed to get a 110 point inspection, and abs and traction control are on the list of points.

is there anything else I can do to try to diagnose this problem? I suppose I could go out and try to get it to fail again and write down the DTC's. would that be the next step? for the next couple of days I have some leverage with the dealer, they have a 7 day return policy, I could tell them that I just can't keep this car with these problems and tell them they have to fix it...

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

I would make a list of any codes and ask the dealership to find out why the codes are being thrown. Believe me, you could be spending thousands of dollars if any of the computer pc boards is bad. The part itself may be $700, but with installation, $1500-$2000 is not uncommon. If the dealership will not fix the problems, then get your money back.

Dave

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

I would just say, don't let the dealer off that easily. Keep after them. The sale of the vehicle was one thing, that was negotiiated, and I'm sure you didn't hold a gun to their heads to get it.
The SAFETY of it, is also a concern, not only for you but for them also. They did the GM certification, they should stand behind it. Plain and simple.
Whether they made money on the sale or not, that has nothing to do with these problems.
Unless they made this sale giving you such a great deal, at their cost, knowing of the problems you were going to encounter.
IMO, still no excuse.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

I received another warning message today which seemed out of place and may shed some light on the earlier warnings I received. while stopped at a light I got a low tire pressure warning on the Front Left tire. I discovered that the reset button can acknowledge the warning messages and it went directly to the front tire pressure display. it read 18psi on the left and 30 on the right. I rolled the car forwards slowly as traffic was moving and within several seconds it changed to 30L 30R. looks like this was also a false warning, but this time specific to a wheel. what are the chances that I'm looking at a malfunctioning connector or wheel speed sensor on the front left wheel as the culprit for the TC ABS and Pressure warnings?

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

It just seems to me that you have way too many things going on here, and looks like it is all generating from the same area.
Will the dealer work with you at all on this? I would keep taking it back and insist that this is troubleshooted, and repaired. Atleast you will know what is wrong, and one way or the other how much this is going to cost.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

I agree, and I haven't even posted all of the problems I've observed with the car. almost all of them are electrical. It scares me very much. its a 99 with 70k on it, I know its not going to be perfect, but I wasn't expecting all of this. I bought it knowing full well that it had a few problems, they were problems I felt I could fix pretty easily. Some I've already taken care of. but in the first few days I've found numerous other problems with various electronic systems. The dealer seems like they will work with me on some of it at least. actually I need to call them shortly, they were supposed to call me today after they had a chance to try to decide what to do after I gave them a list of everything that's wrong with the car. I'm really surprised to see so many things having gotten through the 110 point GM certified inspection. in their defense though, many of these things could only be discovered by driving the car around for a while and trying things out, which would have been out of the scope of the inspection. But I certainly wasn't prepared for all this. I hope they will come through for me.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

Well I talked to the dealer and they are going to repair this problem at no cost to me. we also have an arrangement to take care of one of the other problems by splitting the cost. there are a few other problems with this car which I am not too happy about. but I think I can fix them myself before too long. I may need some help from people here when I get into them. I wish I could figure out what the cause of my leak is...that is probably the next most critical problem

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

Out of Curiosity, did you ever do a Carfax on the car? Do you know any of the car's history?

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

Yes I did get a carfax on it. It started life in Texas (no rust!) and found its way up to where I am. The report was very unordinary and didn't indicate anything which would lead you to believe there would be so many problems with the car. of course carfax reports don't contain anyting that isn't reported to official channels. But the car is in spectacular shape. The paint and interior are almost perfect. Its just got all kinds of electrical problems. I wish I had known all this before, but many of them were things that you could only know by driving it around for a few days.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

Did it happen to come from Houston Texas?

Can anyone tell us if these problems similar to the ones experinced by the 97 Corvette owners? Any chance they replaced the computer withthe slightly buggy 97 version?

My curiosity makes me rude, for that I apologize, let me backtrack.

I know how annoying it can be to by the car you wanted forever, and then find out it isn't exactly perfect. If you can stick it out, you can get the car back to the way it should be. You can buy the different components from ebay or a recycle yard and see if by swapping out the modules you resolve the issue. The great thing about the new corvettes is they are fixer friendly (In most cases) They often use components that are used on other vehicles, and are relativley cheap on the secondary market. The older corvette were exclusive and buying parts meant spending a fortune.

If you think it is an electrical problem (AND NOT AN ELECTRICAL COMPONENT ie, computer) problem, then take it to an automotive electrical shop. They will probably be able to track down the problem for you. Electrical problems are annoying, but not unfixable.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

Well I got my final phone call regarding what the dealership feels they're obligation is to me with these problems. it was not the answer I was hoping for and I'm very displeased about it. I took my 99 in to have two sets of issues addressed. one is the one I'm talking about here, and the other is intermittently working turn signals, which from searching appears to be a fairly common problem also. the turns signals is a bad 4 way flasher they said (I thought it was the switch, but oh well) they want something over $500 to replace it since you have to dig into the dash aparently to get to it. the dealership will cover $150 of that to help me out, still leaves me with a very expensive repair on a car I've only had 1 week. regarding the other issue, they now claim that they had to put in a new tire pressure monitoring system when they inspected the car for GM certified used vehicle status. they said of course that if that is the malfunction, then they are 100% responsible for that. turns out it is not. as if this couldn't get any worse, they say the car needs a new EBCM. they quote $900 to replace that. they say now that since the tire pressure sensors they installed were not that cause of the problems, that they are not responsible for anything at all.
so I will be contacting GM about this and see what they have to say, because this dealer is making them look bad. I have a list which is discustingly long of problems with this car which I gave to the dealership. some of them are problems which I just got unlucky with. others are specifically listed in the 110 points of the GM certified vehicle inspection, and they still are problems with the car. not just one, but a few problems are things which the inspection should have caught. my position is that I bought a certified vehicle, if there are problems which I found 2 days after the purchase which should never be problems on a certified vehicle, that they should fix them for me. well they disagree of course.

I might ask the dealership how much it would cost to just buy the parts. I may be able to do the replacement myself. can anyone give me any info on where the parts are located and how hard it is to replace them? its the 4 way flasher for the turn signals, and the ECBM for the tire pressure monitor/abs/traction control
thanks for any info.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

Wow, things aren't going so well for you.

If I were you, I'd make a priority list of what you want.

1. Satisfaction from the dealer? Take the car back, and/or hire a Lawyer/Paralegal.
2. A car with no problems? Take this one back.
3. This car fixed? Take it to another mechanic. Possibly another dealership or an electrical expert. Have them fix the car. Take the repair bill to your lawyer and see what the dealership will do about it. (Or just enjoy your problem free car)

If you ask me what is wrong with a car, I can give you a dozen answers. That sounds like what the dealer is doing to you. What you need to do is ask WHY the dealer thinks you need a new ECBM. What does the ECBM do, and are those the exact areas you are having trouble with? You probably want to ask questions like, Could a loose wire cause the same problem? Has you ever seen these issues with another corvette? If it turns out not to be the ECBM, what recourse do I have? Do I get a refund?

No one wants to buy a "new to them" car and go through these headaches. If I were you, I'd take the car back. If I were me, (Who happens to like working on cars) and I got a REALLY good deal on it, I'd keep it.

It kinda depends on what your priorities are.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

Oh yea, did you ever access your on board computer and write down the codes for us?

Reading C5 Codes

If you know what the codes are, you can look them up in the 99 corvette service manual and get step by step instructions on how to fix them

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

I did get what I feel is an awesome deal on this car. time has elapsed for having any ability to return it to the dealer. I have already solved some of the problems with the car including the most annoying one.

I haven't been able to read the error codes because with a couple of attempts after that one day I have not been able to reproduce the problem. I gave the dealer's tech a detailed account of exactly what happened. they went over the car with a fine tooth comb and they seem to be very confident in the final diagnosis.

I enjoy working on cars, and I have the service manual on the way. I'll probably buy the parts and fix it myself when I get a chance. I thought this was an amazing deal, turns out that with everything that needs to be corrected it wasn't quite as good as I had thought. but I hope I can get it all working with some time and money.

I contacted GM by e-mail to try to complain about this dealer. I mean they are making them look bad, that's just not cool. I haven't gotten any replies yet. I'm thinking about calling them but I dont' know what number to call.

For anyone in Hampton Roads, this was the Hall GMC/Pontiac dealer in Virginia Beach. they can't be trusted, and they deny any responsibility for selling a certified vehicle with malfunctioning turn signals, ABS, Traction control, and tire pressure monitoring systems amoung a rather long list of other less dangerous malfunctions. They have a nice 2003 Z06 on the lot right now...don't buy it, just stay away. There are other safer places to by a Corvette.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

It sounds like you came up with an action plan. Way to go!

I"d try reading the codes one more time. The computer stores both active and past codes, so you can get a picture of what your errors your car has been throwing.

I love the C5's for many reasons, but I REALLY love it for the onboard computer. With that and the service manual, you can track down just about any problem.

If you want to buy OEM parts a little cheaper, try one of the online GM parts palces

http://www.gmpartscenter.net/oem_parts.html

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

ASK DEALER FOR CARFAX...THEN FIND GOOD VET MECH. AND HAVE THEM SCAN CAR...GOOD LUCK WITH THIS,,,,THERE IS NOTHING WORSE THAN A CAR YOU CANNOT TRUST...BOB

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

I did get a carfax on it, it showed nothing out of the ordinary.

I finally got around to reading the codes. that's a great interface they built into these cars. I'd rather read codes that way that hooking up my autotap.
as for the codes, there are many more than I thought there would be. but at least they should help me fix things.
40 BCM:
B2578 H
B2583 H
B2723 H
58 SDM
U1040 H
60 IPC
U1040 H
U1160 H
99 HVAC
B0338 H C
A6 SCM
B2605 H
B2606 H
B2860 H
B0 RFA
U1096 H
U1064 H
U1016 H

the codes about the turn signals make sense, it needs a new 4 way flasher, aparently they go bad sometimes.
The one about the HVAC is interesting. sounds like its got an open circuit on the interior temp sensor? I thought it was strange but I didn't really know if it was a problem or if I just didn't know what I was looking at, but when I put the HVAC system into auto mode the A/C light comes on no matter what. even when its cold the air blowing in is warm, but the A/C light still comes on. I didn't know whether that was aproblem or not because I dont' know much about how its supposed to work. maybe that's normal for auto mode?
codes about the power seat could help to explain why the power seat does wierd things sometimes. the rear height adjustment doesn't work on the driver's side at all. when you move the switch you can hear the motor running (or something) but it doesn't move. the front height adjust works fine though. the easy access mechanism doesn't always work either. sometimes when I put in the key it moves me forward some, but then stops, I have to move it the rest of the way myself. Sometimes when I take the key out the seat moves back some then stops. somtimes it doesn't move at all. I thought the relay might be to blame. sometimes it stops working for a second at a time using the manual switch also. push the switch and the seat moves. sometimes it will stop moving. still holding the switch, seat not moving. release the switch then push it again immediately, and the seat continues to move as it should. is there any way to recalibrate the seat so it knows where its supposed to move back to when the key is removed?
I have no clue what's up with the PASS key code, I haven't had any trouble out of that system.
the codes about communication failure are the ones which concern me the most. I'm a computer engineer but I don't know that much about the CAN network. is there some kind of a hub in there or is it a daisy chain network? I'm not even sure yet which components were throwing communication failure codes because my service manual hasn't come in yet. but something sure doesn't look right in there.

This just seems to be getting worse and worse doesn't it?

Some oddities or possible problems I've noticed I was hesitant to pass judgement on because I just don't know if its supposed to do that or not. At first I thought my disc changer didn't work either, but that one turned out to be my own stupidity. I didn't notice the message on the disc sleeves that the discs had to be inserted label side down. I flipped them around and now it works perfectly. If only all of my C5's problems could be that easy.

I knew it had problems, but I certainly wasn't expecting all this. Hopefully with the service manual as a guide and the vast knowledge of board members here I can get these things repaired.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

The manuals are AWESOME! All you have to do is look up the code in the index and then go to the page it tells you. You still need to know how to fix things, and often when you get a combination of codes you have to be able to find out what all the codes have in common.

Out of the codes you listed, only one shows that it is current. B0338 H C you can tell it is current because of the C next to it (H is for history)

You probably already figured this out, but you can go here for code descriptions.

I would wait until your manuals come in before I do anything, but if you need to get to your sensor, you can go herefor instructions.

As far as your seat and key thing goes. I had the same problem. It was a VERY easy fix though. I took my title/registration into the Dealer and had an origional key cut. They had to call Detroit and get the key pattern and VAT key code, but it worked out fantastic. As you use your key the teeth wear down and it gets a little loose. If the key moves at all when the seat function is doing it's thing, it will stop. A new key fixed my problem right up. You could take your key in and have it duplicated, but if it is going to cost you the same amount, why not have an origional cut? Go to the parts department, not the service center.

You would think that if you needed a new BCM module, more than three codes would pop up, and that they would all be current.

When you have the time, can you please post repost your problems in bullet order?

I bet we cansolve 1/2 of them by next weekend.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

this web site is awesome! I didn't know that the C meant current. if I remember correctly the only one with the C by it was the HVAC malfunction.

if the problem with my easy entry seat is just a worn down key I will be extatic. honestly, I have noticed that the key seems rather worn down. what looks like they used to be sharp points are somewhat rounded off, and the silver shiny stuff is gone from the top and bottom of the teeth. I have another key around here somewhere which I just realized I'm not 100% sure where it is. if I can locate it I'll switch my primary key and give that one a try for a while.

unfortunately I think there is more to the power seat than just that. that would explain the easy entry feature acting strange or not working sometimes, but I have some mobility problems with the seat just moving it with the switch. but if the easy entry system would work more reliably that would be nice. that's the most "tangible" problem with the car right now, and I am really eager to get it fixed.

okay, here it is. this is going to look aweful just by the volume of independent malfunctions. but here is my complete list of problems, the "points" on the 110 point GM Certified vehicle inspection, and other information as to whether I fixed it or the problem changed. this is part of a very long letter which I sent to GM to ask them to repremand this dealer or maybe even help me with the cost of some of these things, which on a certified car I don't think should be an issue at all!

1. Turn signals work intermittently (point 27?) – diagnosed to be a failure of the 4 way flasher. This issue has not been resolved.
2. Climate Control LCD has no illumination – fixed! 1/6/07
3. Belt is squeaking (point 48) – semi-resolved itself over time
4. Passenger’s maplight does not work. Bulb is fine, the socket is bad (point 26) – Verified with a voltmeter, that bulb socket is dead.
5. Driver’s maplight socket is broken, but the light still works
6. Power telescoping steering wheel does not work – update, wheel started working on its own, but randomly fails to work from time to time.
7. Power Seat does not work properly * this is the only item not reported to the dealer. Details of the various power seat malfunctions was unclear upon initial report.
a. One button on the power seat does not work. You can hear the motor, but nothing happens (both seats?) – determined to be the lateral support adjustment.
b. Easy entry system sometimes fails likely due to problems with the power seat.
c. The rearmost seat height adjustment does not work. The motor can be heard moving, but the rear of the seat does not rise or fall. The front height adjustment works.
d. Driver’s power seat switch, control module, or relay intermittently fails to work. Operator can hold the seat movement button and the seat will move. It will randomly stop while it is not at the end of its travel. The button it still held, but the seat does not move. If the switch is released, and then reactivated the seat starts working again. This happens a couple times a day on average, and may be connected to problems with the easy entry system.
8. Possibly serious problem with the ABS system – Diagnosed to be a bad ECBM by Hall. Hall refused to repair.
9. Possibly serious problem with the traction control system (point 10) – Diagnosed to be a bad ECBM by Hall. Hall refused to repair.
10. Possible serious problem to the tire pressure monitoring system. System reported a low tire one day for several seconds, then display returned to normal. – Diagnosed to be a bad ECBM by Hall. Hall refused to repair.
11. Suspension makes loud squeaking sounds on every semi-major bump. – this has been getting better as time goes by.
12. Vehicle leaks in rain, severely on the driver’s side! Wiring is getting wet – resolved, this was due to a clogged drain under the cowling below where the driver’s side wiper enters.
13. Wrong oil put in the engine (point 97) – fixed, oil changed to Mobil1 on 1/13/07
14. Coolant was not topped of all the way, or cap left untightened (point 100) – fixed by Hall during vehicle detailing.

okay that's better. when I copied it in I had formatting and even color from the Word doc I copied, then I clicked the post button and it all lost its formatting. oh well, fixed so you can read it.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

OK, I think I can help you with some of your problems today.

The Squeaks seem like a good place to start.

The squeaks are annoying, this is what Leaftye told us to do. (It works great)

For the best list ever about the C5, check out this link by Leafteye

Roof noises
If you buy a coupe with a removable roof, you can expect wind noise and some creaking. The wind noise will never totally go away, but if there's creaking, you can eliminate that by thinly applying dielectric silicone grease to the weather-stripping. It also prevents cracking, so do this to all weather-stripping, on any car.

Hood rattles
During cold weather the rubber hood stops can also rub and rattle against the hood. Adjust and lubricate the rubber stops so when you pull the corner of the hood up, it doesn’t pull up, but the hood still closes.

Drivetrain rattling
The valvetrain makes a significant amount of noise at idle. It may sound like sewing machine. Converting the valve rockers to true shaft-mounted adjustable roller rockers with may help eliminate the valvetrain noise if adjusted properly. Installing a big cam and stiffer valve springs will make the noise louder.

On manual transmission cars (M6 or M12), the transmission sounds like it is rattling when leaving the line. It is normal. It is the clutch throwout bearing rattling around. Sometimes you'll hear a horrible rattle if you shut off the engine. If you press the clutch pedal in while shutting off the car, you won't hear it.

Suspension squeaking
In cold weather you may hear the suspension creak when you go over speed bumps. To fix this, clean (optional) and lubricate the sway bar bushings. The adjustable metal sway bar end links on Hotchkis and T1 bars can also create loud clicking sounds. Most adjustable end links are quiet initially, but wear out and get noisy over time. Greasing and protecting the end links from dirt may prevent wear.

Interior rattles
The visors may rattle when they are put up, but if you flip them down, the rattle goes away. Squeezing the mirror lid down seems to take care of it. Try glueing a piece of felt or velcro between the mirror and lid to see if that fixes it. Caravaggio also makes replacement leather visors, but they go for $400.

The stereo is Bose, and to go along with the historically crappy build quality of Bose products, Bose has graced the Corvette with Bose emblems on the door speaker covers that rattle when you play music with bass. A Bose system doesn't exist that puts out good bass, but the system still manages to rattle the emblems when playing Country, Hip Hop, or Techno at moderate volumes. Check this problem by having a passenger and yourself putting a finger on the emblems with music playing. Glue the emblems down to fix it.

If the roof isn't tightened down enough, it will rattle. There are some adjustment screws in the roof to make this adjustment

Belt Chirping
During cold weather, the belt can chirp. Goodyear Gatorback belts from AutoZone don’t chirp.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

Did they ever tell you the source of this problem? I'm having a similar issue.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

Can you be alittle more specific? I know the cause and solution to just about every problem I've had, just let me know what you are having difficulties with and I'll let you know what fixed mine.

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

I had the exact same error messages on my vette. After several trips to the dealer to check the codes the problem was totally solved by replacing the ebcm. I have not had any problems since and don't recall it being a very expensive part - couple hundred dollars or so, not the thousands as mentioned (no labor included). After you solve these issues you are having you will truly love your corvette. Don't get to discouraged, have fun with it.
Grant

RE: Concerned owner needs some help
 

Yes, if you are referring to the traction control, ABS, and active handling messages the problem is almost certainly a bad EBCM or EBCTM (depending on whether or not your car has traction control)

The price of this part can vary and it can be reasonable, or very expensive whether or not you pay for labor. the good news is its pretty easy to replace yourself. just so you don't feel bad, you aren't alone:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...th+EBCM+issues

hundreds of other vette owners have gone through the same thing.

for replacement I recommend you contact Gene at www.gmpartshouse.com he has a much better price on the EBCM or EBCTM than your local dealer, and he can help you figure out exactly what you need. last time I looked I think he had it for ~$350

if you replace it yourself its common enough that I bet you can find instructions online if you look for how to find it and remove/reinstall.

if you want to investigate a cheaper alternative, go to http://www.absfixer.com they know exactly what the problem is and willfix your existing EBCM, cost is like $150 or so. you have to remove it and send it to them, they fix it and overnight it back. you CAN drive your car without it though, so you aren't taken out of commission completely.

good luck!