Our Economic Situation
 

Our current economic situation sucks. What is worse is that there are so many additional insults to the US Public.

Billions of dollars go to Wall Street to try and correct bad business decisions.

I have been self employed for over 12 years. Who is going to bail me out if I screw up?

I have no health insurance, no retirement plan or pension. CEO's run their financial institutions into the ground and walk away with MILLIONS or even BILLIONS. Why can't I be rewarded for being a screw up?

I pay 33% of my income in Federal taxes.[sm=usa.gif]
I pay 7% State sales tax (NJ)[sm=usa.gif]
I pay $10,000 a year in property taxes[sm=usa.gif]
I make less than $50,000 a year[sm=violin.gif]
I am facing an IRS audit for my (very) small business for 2005 - what an INSULT !!!!
If the IRS finds ANYTHING WRONG there will be FINES, PENALTIES and INTEREST - But - if the IRS discovers that they have screwed up - YOU ARE S.O.L. BUDDY - you can not recover any penalties or interest from them! IT'S SO NICE to have such a one way relationship with someone who has their hand so GOD AWFUL DEEP into MY POCKET! [sm=wtf.gif]

Who is going to cover my a$$ if my health fails and I can't work? I'll be 50 next month!

I haven't stopped paying my mortgage, my taxes, my insurance (Commercial auto, Commercial Liability, Private Auto, Home owners - what a frigging burden!) YET........ maybe I'll run out of luck soon!

HOW MUCH MORE CAN THE AMERICAN PUBLIC TAKE ?????

I am sure that the majority of you feel my pain. Let's hear from you!

[sm=americanasmiley.gif][sm=americanasmiley.gif][sm=americanasmiley.gif]

RE: Our Economic Situation
 

Hey man, I agree the economy sucks right now personally I've lost something over half a mil, on paper, in just the last three weeks, but the we (the US) deserve the criticism: we elected lots of politicians (it's not just Bush, it took lots of them to screw it up this bad) and we all tolerated and even encouraged fiscal and economy policies that were the equivalent of steriods bulked up our economy in the short run but a killer in the long run.

But that isn't your problem, I think. First, if you earn $50,000 and are paying 33% federal taxes you really need to get a good tax advisor. My youngest son makes noticeably more than that and pays about 14%. You aren't counting social security (about 7-8%), in there, are you? It is not a tax, really.

Regardless, unless you can prove that Wall Street did something to screw you (did you lose all your savings in the Enron scandal? Did you have shares in Bear-Sterns? Did you have more than $100,000 in deposits in a failed bank?) I suggest you look elsewhere for why things are difficult. Life in any economy is tough and at least it is possible to make something of yourself here but things are pretty Darwinian, ultimately.

I paid about $90K in income taxes last year, even using every legal trick in the book to shelter and defer income from federal and state taxes. I worked hard for the money, too, but part of my success is where I live: somewhere where education and hard work, careful planning and denying myself things now to save money for later will (and did) pay off. Every time I look what is happening in Zimbabwae and the Congo and North Korea, I realize I got a real bargain for my taxes, despite all the government's mistakes.

RE: Our Economic Situation
 

Hi DeeVeeEight, I can feel your pain and I understand what you are saying. You work hard to make a thousand a week and its so hard to meet our obligations.
We look at Wall Street and the reward for loosing everyones money is a bail out from Uncle Sam.
There was an artice in the news that said the CFO of Washing Mutual was paid $20 mil as a severence package after being appointed just 3 weeks before the bank folded.
AIG got $85 mil from Uncle Sam andthru a vacation for there top 100 sellers which cost over $400,000.
Is there anyone among us that has gone on a vacation and paid $40,000 per person?
What about the other Executives that are now being grilled by congress and are trying to jusyify there $1,000,000 a week salary. A mil a week salary and a $60,000,000 (60 mil) bonus while there stock holders lost $10 Trillion dollars.
Mr Lee Willis, nothing personal, I can only wish that I could be in your position. You suffered a $500,000 loss. That means you had $1.9 mil before the 30% loss. Im sure that 99% of us would take that amount of money and live happily ever after.
Your right education and hard work are the keys to success, you talk about doing without, well if you make $600,000 per year I guess that buying a $75,000 Corvette as opposed to a $150,000 Aston is one way to cut back.
Careful planning is a wonderful theory but on $50,000 a year what if the kids need braces, or some medical expense comes up that leaves us short $5,000 or our car dies and we get a used car that was advertised at $19.00 down and $19.00 per month and then goes to $299.00 after 3 months.
Yes its true we all created the mess that were in. What about the developers that told us we could get into a home with a 97% mortgage with no credit check and then told us we could get a 30% second on it.
What about the all the pre approve credit cards we were offered with out noticing that the intrest rate was 30%.
What about the electronic stores that told us that we need a $3000. flat screen TV along with instant credit.
In America we not only want to keep up with the "Jones" we want to be the "Jones".
I think we all have to take a step back and be thankful for what we have. All us have a Corvette, what a great toy!
Lets just try to buy what we can afford and if it takes a year or 2 of saving for it, so be it.
So much for my rant, any opions pro or con are welcome, PG.

RE: Our Economic Situation
 

First, my major advice to DeeVeeEight was to get a good tax advisor.

I agree with your "rant", too.

Let me rant a bit more in reply and support. The major key to success is not just education (I know many well educated people who are not really doing well financially) butmaking and working a life plan that leverages and multiplies what you build or accomplish (i.e., if you depend on skills, avoid industries or jobs where skills become quickly obsolete, if you build a business set its up so its success feedback into growth, etc.) and make sure to measure and manage risk (don't make yourself too dependent on things you can't control, set aside enough to survice some suprirses). Part of that plan has to be living within your means.
Thus, I could not agree more with "Lets just try to buy what we can afford and if it takes a year or 2 of saving for it, so be it." Charles Dickens put it best in David Copperfield: "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pound ought and six, result misery."

I know all about braces, medical bills, emergencies and things you have to have, because I went through it all, including massive medical bills for a spouse and college educations for three kids (total of five degrees). So, I have little sympathy for people who haven't managed their careers and life, who induldge themselves and are in debt over their heads because of it,never read the fine print in their credit card contracts, and now find themselves massively "upside down" with on a car loan or mortgage, etc. This is becauseI had to deny myself a lot of things over the years, to the point it hurt and even humiliated: my first home was only slightly larger than my hobby workshop is today. I drove ratty old beaters for nearly 30 years even thoughI wanted a 'vette sinceI first saw one in '57 and an Aston Martin (with a video navigation system) since first seeing one in Goldfinger.
I admit thatI am blessed and lucky to have parentswho made sure I got a good education, etc., but mostly to be born in the US, where this sort of thing can happen that's why I'm not too harsh in my crticism of the government (although I am a Obama supporter and have given the legal maximumn to his campaign).
I haven't done anything anyone else could not either, by working hard, managing their life and finances well, and denying themselves what they until they can afford. I have a young protege now, only 30 years old, who was born dirt poor in Jamiaca and is all self-made, now pulling in good money so he is well on his way to being a millionaire by age 40 if not 35 but he's still driving a 17 year old beater pickup, doesn't spend what he doesn't have.

Anyway, enough of my rant . . . I know times are tough and I realize people are hurting, but the world isn't necessarily fair . . . .

RE: Our Economic Situation
 

All I am saying is that it sucks that our economy is where it is - and that it chafes me to see corporate assholes make millions when they are running their businesses into the ground AND then MY TAX DOLLARS bail their greedy asses out!

NO ONE IS COVERING MY ASS BUT ME!
LET THESE BANKS FAIL. I RESENT THE BAIL OUTS.
YOU WANT ME TO FEEL BETTER?
BAIL ME OUT TOO!
I am not a financial wizard, just a hard working AMERICAN!
MAYBE I SHOULD APPLY FOR WELFARE SO PEOPLE LIKE LEE WILLIS CAN SUPPORT ME! Then I can stay home and sit on the sofa and eat chips and watch the tube all day and make babies so I can get paid! Sound like anyone you know?
We should cut off welfare benefits after the second child. Let these deadbeat individuals pay their own way too. AMERICA HAS CREATED A WELFARE STATE!
As I said earlier - I DO PAY MY BILLS, I live within my means. I resent the fact that our Federal, State and Local governments spend way beyond their budgets - run into the RED year after year - BUT IF YOU TRY THAT?????
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I say let them drown - and learn how to stop spending what they don't have.

And as far as the Mortgage crisis is concerned..... this thing has been brewing for years. Greed kept it going, money greases a lot of otherwise squeaky wheels. I say Investigate the SOB's who ran their corporations into the ground and MAKE THEM PAY! And quit putting white collar criminals in country club jails - that is not a serious enough deterrent for them. Put them in with the general prison population - let them be someone's BITCH cellmate! If I could have done what Martha Stewart did and get away with it like she did I WOULD HAVE! The penalties for white collar criminals are not severe enough.

RE: Our Economic Situation
 

Study a little history guys: a very interesting story is the "South Sea Bubble" a big speculator crash in 1720 nearly 400 years ago, in the London investment scene, the Wall Street of its day. Greed has always been with us. Boom and bust cycles have always been with us: each crash leads to new laws and regulations but people are creative.
There is a lesson there: things never really change, because humankind doesn't. But realize not everyone on wall street is a crook. And take to heart Warren Buffet's words, said before but re-stated in his guest editorial in the NY Times today: "I get frightened when people get greedy and greedy when people get frigthened." He's buying stock and investing now.
DeeVeeEight, I am really not picking on you. But there is a difference between working hard and taking care of yourself, and working smart making a plan that will lead to success and then working it. Find out how to avoid paying those taxes, and then, if I were you, I'd invest the money long term.
I guess the irony about this discussion, on this site,, is that there are more than a few members who I can tell have spent way too much, way too early, borrowing way too much, for a 'vette: I am not criticising them, except thatI doubt theyever really looked at the numbers: what finacing a car that expensive is costing them down the road versus putting all that money in the bank and investing it. I could have bought a new 'vette in '67 (and boy, did I want one, Oh God), but I drove a clapped outPlymouth with a V7 (one cylinder didn't run) tyhat I literally painted with a broom (as a joke) for three years to get by. Doing a little calculation on my investments over the last 41 years, had I bought the beautifyul blue '67 350/350coupe I wanted so much, I'd have roughly 381,000 dollars less now(even in today's deflated stock market): one Corvette then, orwhat? six of them now (or a couple of Aston Martins).

RE: Our Economic Situation
 

You all make some very good points. [sm=smiley20.gif]

I would like to add,....
You take these 'big companies', or any company, and work them in the manner Lee described, concerning our lives. Now this isa formula for success. I ran my business in basicly the same manner. Was doin' pretty good too, until the housing crunch hit. Lost, what was to me, a lot of money, but I walked away debt free. When the housing comes back, I might do it again. Heck, I already proved to myself, that it works.
Spread this to all branches of Fed, state, and local governmental opperations. Sounds good, don't it?
Only one problem,......it won't work.
Why?
........as mentioned in a post above,.........
GREED!
So many people are out for them selves.
Me, me, my, my.
Sure, I have a few toys. I just don't want everybody elses, too.:D

Frankly Lee, Obama scares the hell out of me. I just don't trust him.

Y'all go which ever way ya want, ya got the right. ;)

RE: Our Economic Situation
 

Yeah, I know, Starship, I'm not sure what to think about Obama, either.

But my grandfather was a minor politician: he told me, oh, fifty years ago, when I was just ten or so, "Always vote for the youngest generation inyour family."

I'm not sure who is best among the two choices, but I'm voting for my granddaughter (6 mo.) and overall, I think maybe if we give the middle class a tax break, and cut the BS of the last 8 years and their giving wall street a break every time they turn around, maybe, just maybe, it will be better.

Could be wrong. But I'll tryit one time, anyway, for my granddaughter. Problem I have is either way, I have to choose a politician. Wish I could elect a Buffet (Warren or Jimmy I'd take either one gladly).

RE: Our Economic Situation
 

Ya know, it's picking the lessor of two evils. [&o]

Now I had no prob voting for Reagan, that guy had some savy. :)
He put things in place, that showed up years after he was out of the White House. ( ...and Clilnton tried to take credit for it, but I know better. ;))

Who brought about the end of the 'Cold War'? :eek:

I guess what I'm trying to get to is this,....
Where are our great leaders?
They are not in the White House, Senate,or Congress.
Just a bounch of 'Devil may care' slackerds who approach 'our' finaces as there's, and guess what, everyday is Christmas.
I just don't see anyone or group, that willget control of this wastefull spending. Why can't they see that they are the ones delivering the 'killing blow' to our economy.
I'm almost physically ill about the state of things. All I really know is that
I DIDN'T DO IT!
SO WHY SHOULD I HAVE TOPAY FOR IT? [:@]

If a business goes under, it goes under. Mine did, but I didn't recieve one penny. What makes me so special, hmmmm? :eek:

O.K., I'm ranting. But Dang it, I'm really p'd off.
...and there ain't squat that I can do about the situation. [:o]

RE: Our Economic Situation
 

Your right C3Starship,sometimes it seems that we arepicking the lessor of two evils, but even if an oposing canidate gets elected you can meet with them and try to express an oposing opinion and sometimes they will take up our cause.
I met with Senator Hoyle (R GastonCounty NC) last Monday. We asked him to eliminate gas chambers to put stray dogs to sleepand instead use injections, he agreed to be a sponsor of our bill.
I used to be afraid of politations but there is no need to be, when we have a different conviction most time they will meet with us and at least hear us out.
Obama has promised to lower the taxes on those of us that make less than $ 250,000, well I'm in that catagory so he gets my vote!
Will he keep his promises? I not sure, but I can only hope for the best.
The point is Get Out And Vote! PG.