I'm considering installing the much advertised Vortex (or Tornado) device in my 95 corvette. It claims that the secret to its performance is the vortex (funnel) motion of air that increases horsepower and especially gas mileage. Is this device worth investing in?

No. If something that cheap and simple could have improved the car's performance Gm would have added it at the factory.

You definitely want to stay away from that thing. As far as I'm concerned putting anything in your intake is just going to restrict the amount of air that can come in, no matter what direction if spins the air. You will be better off just getting a nice aftermarket intake system. I have the Blackwing on my car and don't have any complaints...although I think Lee said he didn't have great results with it on his set-up (correct me if I'm wrong Lee).

The Blackwing adds maybe 3-4 HP, not a lot but then, every bit helps. The Vortex or the Tornado does nothing but interfere with air flow, probably costing you HP.

The Vortex Tornado has been around for years and years. It operates on the theory that it spins the air to add turbulence in the airstream through the intake manifold, this increasing the thorough mixture of the air-fuel mixture and thus adding a tiny bit to power.

It actually works on some carburated engines with poorly designed intake manifolds, particularly at part throttle where airflow is slow, adding torque and fuel economy.

The problem with putting this on a 'vette is that there IS no air-fuel mixture in the intake manifold: the fuel is added in the ports by the fuel injectors, so the Vortex is only going to interfere with the carefully engineering flow of air alone through the manifold.

do you guys have any data to back up your claims, cause I tried It and it showed about a 2hp increase.

The Tornado? 2 HP? You can't measure a difference that small -- less than 1% of a C4's output -- on any chassis dyno with any dependability at all. Typically you get a 1-2% difference from one valid dyno run to another: about 3-5 HP on a C4, particularly if you do the tests a day or a week apart.**

If you are talking about a BLackwing adding only 2 HP, on a C4 I might believe only that: it adds only about 3-4 HP on a C5 so, proportionally, it would add less on a C4 and indidivual car variations could account for the rest. But again, that little is hard to measure.

And I don't have to back up any claim. Based on 40 years of experience, a lot of engineering knowledge, and having seen things just like the Tornado (maybe exactly it, I don't remember the ) I don't believe they work and would not have one on my car. But I doubt it hurts very much. The important thing: You're the one that has to live with it and like it, and if you do, fine.
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**For those who care, here is why. First, there are just differences in any days' testing situations, supposedly you can adjust for air pressure, temp, humidity differences with the SAE adjustment formulae, but those are only approximate, within maybe .5% -- that is 1.5 HP right there on a late model C4, 1.o on an earlier model.
Then, just the tighteness of the harness holding the rear axle down on the rollers, and the exact place on the rollers can make a couple of HP difference: we did a test of a stock, completely heat soaked C5 one day between tight and really tight straps and it took off 3 HP. Not that you would do this, but its a matter of a bit of luck EXACTLy how tight the car is strapped down one week versus another and how it is positionin on the rollers (pointing even a degree or several off straight on is not detectable to the eye but takes another .5 or so HP).
Heat soak? . . .refers to the fact that as the engine heats up from repeated high output runs, it gets a bit less efficient(any engine does as it gets hotter): on my Porsche, stock, the first run was 265, that right after - as quick as we could reset the dyno log, was 263, the next 261, the next lower, etc. all the way after nine runs to a lowest of 256, which was as low as it got (completely heat soaked).

Here is how a lot of people get fooled into thinking something worked> They drive to the dyno place, put the car on the dyno a few minutes later and test the car, getting say, 225 HP. But the car was hot, partially heat soaked, it had been driven prior to the test. Leaving it on the dyno, they open the hood (starting to really cool the engine) and work on the car for say, 10 minutes installing the "device" then they repeat the test. the engine has cooled during that time and they might get 230 Hp now and assume the device added 5 Hp. But if they had just opened the hood and let the engine cool for that same period, adding nothing, it would add the same amount to the next dyno test.

" The Tornado? 2 HP? You can't measure a difference that small -- less than 1% of a C4's output -- on any chassis dyno with any dependability at all. Typically you get a 1-2% difference from one valid dyno run to another: about 3-5 HP on a C4, particularly if you do the tests a day or a week apart.**

If you are talking about a BLackwing adding only 2 HP, on a C4 I might believe only that: it adds only about 3-4 HP on a C5 so, proportionally, it would add less on a C4 and indidivual car variations could account for the rest. But again, that little is hard to measure.

And I don't have to back up any claim. Based on 40 years of experience, a lot of engineering knowledge, and having seen things just like the Tornado (maybe exactly it, I don't remember the ) I don't believe they work and would not have one on my car. But I doubt it hurts very much. The important thing: You're the one that has to live with it and like it, and if you do, fine. "


-as for those who care, I care about test results -(keep in mind I am not sweating this little tin piece of crap) not know it alls that blow wind up your butt without having to back up anything, soley based on the fact that their old timers and have seen everthing- if they can remember or not. read what you wrote- your shooting from the hip-experience-hip-experience sounds like you just made up a nice story to debunk something without testing it. as I recal, dyno's run on 1hp/tq increments, not 3-5- anyway thats how todays ones run.
it seems that every forum has one, your the one here I guess.

for those who wish to get current with modern technology.

Fine, you're an expert. Your tornado produces gobs of power, probably improves your gas mileage, and maybe your sex life, too - whatever you say.

I don't appreciate your words or attitude, buddy.

I've seen more than my share of dyno runs and am very much a numbers only guy. I stated very precisely and clearly the fact-based the reasons why including the fact that I've seen that device dynoed with No results.

Note that you are the one who seems defensive and has resorted to name calling.

And modernh technology? I have more in any one of my three cars than you have in yours (and dyno sheets to prove that it all works).

ORIGINAL: C4POWER

as I recal, dyno's run on 1hp/tq increments, not 3-5- anyway thats how todays ones run.
it seems that every forum has one, your the one here I guess.


Interesting: you say you are the expert, yet then say that modern dynos are calibrated in 1 HP increments. Just how many dyno runs have you really done?

All the dynos I use or have used in the past ten years or so: the DynoJet or the Mustang chassi dyno, as well as the Sheldon and Osmotive engine-stand dynos, are digital, and read out to one tenth of a HP.

But that does not mean the readings they give are ACCURATE or even consistent to .1 HP or even HP increments. All measurement equipment have some standard deviation of readings, and bove I explained why you really can depend on only about 3-5 HP uncertainty band in chassis dyno tests. It's a lot like a bathroom scale: those may be calibrated in 1 lb increments, but typically vary from day to day and depending on temp, and just how you step on them, by about 2-3 lbs. (the same for that matter, with the set of four race scales I have: the four are identical models and very good ones, too, yet we know from testing them that they vary their readings within a band of about 5 lbs (which, out of 1000 lb max per scale, is not too bad).

"And modernh technology? I have more in any one of my three cars than you have in yours (and dyno sheets to prove that it all works). "
thats nice, but your more than TWICE my age, and I wouldn't trade that for the world.
as for the mine is bigger than yours approach---- mines not wrinkled big boy

by the way, aren't you the guy in the K&N banner ad?

C4Power:

I'm another who doubts the tornado does anything, but unlike L W I have no facts, just thirty years of intuition/experience on cars of all types and a vague recollection of some test in Motor Trend years ago on a vortex of something like that, and some other inexpensive things that claimed to add power -- I recall none worked, except, I remember, better spark plug wires, which added something noticeable.

But I think I'd give it up. Maybe I'm an old guy like Willis, but his comments on dyno tests are true - everyone knows they are only good for about + or - 5 HP accuracy. I've dynoed the ZZ4 crate motor in my Chevelle several times in the last year to see how it does as it loosens up as I put some miles on it, and its obvious test results vary by atleast that - same motor, same dyno, different days -- no reason anyone can put their finger on.

And old guys like us aren't worried about our "equipment," if you get my meaning - but maybe you are, since you brought the subject up. Regardless, this forum isn't the place for things like that.

well I guess that we all should be glad you "old guys" are here to clear things up.

Gratitude is not necessary. However, most of the old guys on this and other forums have been around the block enough that they really know their stuff. Whatever you think of their age, realize that building up dozens of modded engines, running hundreds of races, and having spent several months, cumulatively, of your life in shops making dyno runs gives a person a real, no-BS experience base you can't buy any other way. In addition, it helps to be old enough that the testoterone is no longer doing all the thinking for you --> I've won several races, including one match for $12K, where that mattered more than the HP.

And for the record, while I use K&N filters in all my cars, I am not the guy in their ad: he is more more handsome than I am and his vehicle has many more lights on the top of it than my cars do: I am short, fat, buck toothed, cross-eyed and acne scarred and all my cars are only about half the size of his truck: women just love me because I'm rich, have really good taste, and the plots of all the books I've pubished are so romantic.

wow a whole 12k , holy **** thats awsome, how many years trying to get that big win did it take you, I don't care about your crappy petty victory ,Just like you don't care that I have built a new constuctuion residential home and sold it for a 122,000 dollar PROFIT- yes profit- here lets recap, bought the land for 39K(cash) sub-contracted the house

as much as you care about that is how much I care that you think you have better cars than I do, do I need to post the Picks of My Silver Wraith II LWB? let me know when you would like to remove the other foot from your mouth- and I'll prove in the pick its mine- if you need it- so I boubt you got anything on me old man- I'll be retired by the time Im 39 at the rate I'm going- you started the bragging, now didn't you?

here I'll let you sample the engine

ORIGINAL: C4POWER

wow a whole 12k , holy **** thats awsome, how many years trying to get that big win did it take you, I don't care about your crappy petty victory ,Just like you don't care that I have built a new constuctuion residential home and sold it for a 122,000 dollar PROFIT- yes profit- here lets recap, bought the land for 39K(cash) sub-contracted the house


You know, you really are among the most obnouis persons I've met on any forum.

That was $12 grand for one three-run race on one night: more than you have ever won, or will, with your car. I've probably won about $200K and lost about $50K over the past twenty or so years on bets. Somewhere in the archives back in the Street Strip here is the rport on the 3-way race with a new ZO6 that won me $5K a couple of months ago, etc.

As to making $122,000 Profit on selling a house, that is good - you clearly are working in the right direction, but really is not a reason to feel like you are Donald Trump or Warren Buffet, particularly as you put in the sweat equity by being your own contractor. I made right under $240K clear profit, all long-term capital gains the way in did it, in three years in the late 80s, buying and selling a condo in NYC, doing nothing but a bit of spatial study about sales escalation rates to pic a place sure to escalate in price. Similarly, by buying in the right place, I know if I were to sell my place today, I'd clear somewhere around a $780K, or about $70K year profit on the initial $380K I put in to my present house 11 years ago, - not a bad return on the money I put in, but then not that great.

But back to the topic at hand, which as far as you are concerned, seems to be you. So far I fail to see why you are: a) so impressed with yourself, b) so hostile to people on this forum that disagree with you, c) so certain you are right about cars.

must have really touched a nerve on that one-
and so the story unfolds

Back to the question at hand !! I am also a member on the caddilacforums and these damn tornado, vornado, vortex turbo yadda yadda whatever. Believe or not you guys are being nice on here, anytime someone asks about these things everyone goes nuts LOL..Basically after reading literally hundreds of posts what I've narrowed it down to is this....These products spin the air into a vortex to "boost" the air flow, only one tiny little itsy bitsy problem, except on an old carbuerated 4bbl, these things are inserted BEFORE the air cleaner so this "spinning" air coming into the throttle body hits the air filter media prior to entering the throttle body, if it is spinning or doing ANYTHING prior to hitting the filter guaranteed it will no longer be flowing the same way it was after exiting the tornado ! Keep in mind the product being sold in every corvette catalog for the C4's that goes directly into the entrance of the throttle body to smooth the turbulence prior to entering, notice it is located AFTER the air filter and they without question show increases. Sounds simple enough but these damn things are still EVERYWHERE on the market and sooo many poor unfortunate people are getting sucked in every day :^(

Oh well, just the info. I have put together as I too originally thought about purchasing this product.
Tony B.

despite what Gandolf the grey "claims" , these little peices of tin crap only made power in the upper RPM band, when air flow is at its highest CFM- there like $9 try it for yourself, chime in Gandolf, and also be sure to add, how great everything you own is. 30 years of investing and he almost equalled what I have done in my first 3- not bad Gandolf

There are just a lot gullible people out there, as you see. Many products are sold every day (vitamin supplements, etc.) that do no good but no harm either, and people buy them - strangely many of happy with what they got. It doesn't make a harp's worth of different to me if someone likes the vortex of whatever,

good evening everyone...

in case you couldnt tell,, c4power was a child with too much free time on his hands, and he has been banned. I have dealt with im before at another forum of mine, and he had nothing useful to say there either. But that shouldnt come as much of a shock! :D

if he appears to return, anyone is welcome to let me know...thanks!