yeah right again pg.control arm bushings. will put them on my list of things to order.
now as far as the brakes...man I sure hope they're good to go. Pedal feels firm, which means the shop didn't get this right the first time.

Time to move on, hopefully to thenext project. Who knows the best sources for water pumps and power steering pumps? Ecklers? Or the local Napa shop? Stick with stock?

Thanks again guys for all your help.

 

OK, pg, can you tell me if a person wouldNOT get a serious indication that he has a BIG problem with the rotor on that wheel LONG before he gets air in the lines? When I bought my 'Vette, I had a bad rotor and had the "pulsating" feeling in the pedal. I knew the rotor problem had to be addressed. This problem, according to the seller, had been going on for awhile, not just since the day before I drove the car. However, the brakes didn't need bleeding. Does this "air into the system from excessive run-out" occur ultimately from very long term neglect where a series of problems have occured and are present prior to this air getting into the system? Has anyone on here ever had this occur? I've had sustems in bad shape and NOT had this occur? I will check the article that you posted, I'm just wondering ifthis situation related to this guysposted problem. Thanks for the site article. I sincerely hope that I didn't offend anyone in the process of asking about this theory.

 

Hi again, As you said vette brakes are easy to change if you have basic skills and tools.
This "Air" problem is rare. The prior problems, or neglect can bring on the air problem, but there have been times when new rotors and bearings have been installed and the rotor is not 100% parallel and the brakes work fine and then every few hunderd miles the pedal gets soft.
After the 2nd or 3rd re bleed you have to check the run-out. PG.

 

If I understand correctly, the way air gets past the seal is by the inside of the caliper pitting. then, when the tun-out occours, that slight movememt of the pad allows air in the pits to slip past the seals and get trapped in the calipers. The original calipers were just a cast part, the stainless sleeved one will go along way in preventing the air from getting trapped again.

 

Haven't read the article since it was originally published but believe the air gets sucked by the seal because the piston moves faster than the fluid can follow which creates a partial vacuum behind the piston thereby sucking in air. The pitting actually will lead to fluid leaking past the seal and under extreme conditions will lead to no brakes.

An analogy would be when the "Mighty Mo" would fire a nine gun broadside, the ship would move sideways and the water would momentarily leave a gap along the side of the ship.

This is not the shot but impressive nonetheless: http://www.polaris.net/~wright/bb63.jpg
The one I saw was looking straight down the side of the ship and there was about a 12" gap between the water and the hull. It was a hi-speed photo.

 

I just got done reading the article on the "air pumping." With all due respect, this situation doesn't even apply. Considering this problem exists,would be a last resortto a problem that would probably next to NEVER occur. This is a super rare situation to say the least. Like I said from the start, working on these older 'Vette's brake systemsisn't rocket science. And to make it sound like it is, is just something that confuses a beginner. I would be interested to know, who, HONESTLY, on this forum, ever ran into this situation of "air due to excessive run out." Not that I know everything, and in NO way would I ever say that I'm even in the running, ( as we all know, the more one knows, the more one realizes how littlehe knows.) but in the 35 plus years that I've been working on brake systems, from heavy equipment to performance cars and motorcycles and everythingto the left and right and in between, I've not only never run into the problem, but never heard of the theory either. I'd say the reason for that is the fact that it's such a rare situation. I do know that when buying parts, you can run into parts that aren't within specs, especially when you're buying cheap crap, but this "air..." situation won't just occurany time a rotor is slightly out of spec.
All in all, unless a person goes through the regular steps of correcting the short-commings in the brake system and ends up with air in the system time after time with all the components correctly doing their job, this far fetched theory shouldn't even be considered as it only brings about unneeded confusion.

 

Well it all came about when the shop probably had to justify the amount of time spent on the car. In the end, I'm guessing they didn't get all the air out and the problem returned.
This time a friend helped and he commented that these stock brakes are the best stock brakes he's ever seen. He didn't by the run-out air thing either.Hopefully brake pedal stays firm as it is now. But if the problem returns, next step could bess calipers with o rings, unless Texas Jim thinks otherwise.

 

dar, don't know if your last phrase was "doggin' sarcasm" or not, but I try to keep things simple and roll on from there. Even with complicated situations, I go from the bottom up, in logical order-start at the beginning. And when it comes to "services" in any field, I seriously dislike "dishonest behavior." I'm all for "brain-storming" a topic, but also to eliminate any far-reaching possible problems that would probably next to never exist. Those would be left to "last resorts" after nothing-else works.
I know that I've debated this topic into the dirt and I'm sure that everyone is tired of reading my crap andme running my mouth. But I'd rather do this thanstand by and watch whilesomeone throws their hands up because they feel something is "over their head and near impossible" to repair on their own when that's not true in any way.
Again, if I offended anyone in any way, you have my sincere apology.

 

Texas Jim- No apologies neccessary. Sometimes my humor can be construed wrongly.
I think you and others know when mechanics arefeeding newbies with a line of crap. And like I've stated already, the guy who helped me bleed the brakes was very impressed with the parts he saw on my car and also repeated your comments about the line of crap concerning the brakes, runout, air, etc. So, yes ss and o rings may be overkill and a waste of money, but its important to run these issues by people who've been through it before.
Thanks for your help and I think everyone enjoys reading yourcomments here.

 

SS lined calipers are not overkill if yours are pitted beyond a simple honing cleanup.