Engine Question
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,152
From: NC
RE: Engine Question
You guys made me laugh so much!
wrwalke "DOH" now everyone will no.
starship stickers.
ax a "STP" sticker- I got one----on my tool box.
and neon lights
And a few serious answers, I'd like to meet you guys at a bar.PG
wrwalke "DOH" now everyone will no.
starship stickers.
ax a "STP" sticker- I got one----on my tool box.
and neon lights
And a few serious answers, I'd like to meet you guys at a bar.PG
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,244
From: Reno, Nv.
RE: Engine Question
ORIGINAL: ax
Your better off saving up for a HOOKER......
Your better off saving up for a HOOKER......
*wipes eyes, picks up glasses*
pg,
Istoppedgoin' in bars a looooong time ago. They got neon lights, don't cha know.( stickers and fart-canstoo )
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 52
RE: Engine Question
OK Cyclic...just having some fun....to answer your question...
The biggest difference between a "stock chevy" engine and the "corvette" engine is in the heads and carb.
As any engine builder worth his salt will tell you.....flow means everything....for a givin engine that is.
Cubic inches also make power, but I would take a well prepped 327 or350 with good "flow" over most any stock BB out there. In a nut shell.....the more fuel and air you can get to the cyl. the more power you can make...IE....bigger bang. I build Harley motors, and the difference properly ported and polished heads can make is amazing.(keep in mind that my bike has 3 7/8 inch pistons, almost the same diameter as 350 pistons). The research I put into the bike motor REALLY pays off when you put the same info into an 8 cyl motor. Carb setup(or injection)is the next thing to fine tune. You can spend all the money you want on cams, high compression pistons, roller rockers...ect..ect..ect. If you don't haveenough fuel and air in the right proportions and with good atomizationgetting the the cyl. it all means nothing in the long run.Once you have the fuel-air getting there, the next thing is to keep it there. A good valve job, piston rings, and properly honed cyl walls are a must. Then and only then should you even worry about cutting the friction down. friction robs power.....period.Assuming the lower end is in good shape,(there isn't much friction reducing you can do there....the tolerences have to be what they have to be) you can get into roller rockers,properly set-uppush rods...ect. The one thing to keep in mind is thateverything you change on the motor will more than likley change you carb or injector settings.This is all based on what I thinkthe order is thatit should be done.
In the next segment we will disscuss the adavantages of Fart-cans and the awsome sound that will have your rivals wetting themselves.
The biggest difference between a "stock chevy" engine and the "corvette" engine is in the heads and carb.
As any engine builder worth his salt will tell you.....flow means everything....for a givin engine that is.
Cubic inches also make power, but I would take a well prepped 327 or350 with good "flow" over most any stock BB out there. In a nut shell.....the more fuel and air you can get to the cyl. the more power you can make...IE....bigger bang. I build Harley motors, and the difference properly ported and polished heads can make is amazing.(keep in mind that my bike has 3 7/8 inch pistons, almost the same diameter as 350 pistons). The research I put into the bike motor REALLY pays off when you put the same info into an 8 cyl motor. Carb setup(or injection)is the next thing to fine tune. You can spend all the money you want on cams, high compression pistons, roller rockers...ect..ect..ect. If you don't haveenough fuel and air in the right proportions and with good atomizationgetting the the cyl. it all means nothing in the long run.Once you have the fuel-air getting there, the next thing is to keep it there. A good valve job, piston rings, and properly honed cyl walls are a must. Then and only then should you even worry about cutting the friction down. friction robs power.....period.Assuming the lower end is in good shape,(there isn't much friction reducing you can do there....the tolerences have to be what they have to be) you can get into roller rockers,properly set-uppush rods...ect. The one thing to keep in mind is thateverything you change on the motor will more than likley change you carb or injector settings.This is all based on what I thinkthe order is thatit should be done.
In the next segment we will disscuss the adavantages of Fart-cans and the awsome sound that will have your rivals wetting themselves.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 76
From:
RE: Engine Question
I'm trying to remember the &^%$ it was I asked? I have been doing a bit of reading on the crossfire injection . One of my mottos in life is that if it aint broke, don't fix it. The car runs good as is. However, I do have 25 year old technology. How would it be to dump it and install a new manifold with a healthy Holley on top or do they have any replacement typ injection systems. I'm real out of the loop on all this. My main deal is radio control planes.
I have been doing a bit of reading on the crossfire injection . One of my mottos in life is that if it aint broke, don't fix it. The car runs good as is. However, I do have 25 year old technology. How would it be to dump it and install a new manifold with a healthy Holley on top or do they have any replacement typ injection systems. I'm real out of the loop on all this. My main deal is radio control planes.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 398
From:
RE: Engine Question
Cross-fire... some like it, some hate it. Not alot you can do with it, and you can't really mod it to get more fuel/air without some major hacking (regulator, injectors, reprogram the computer-controller, etc.).
New intake and carb, figure about $120 for a good intake and about $250-350 for a good carb. Follow the formula to get the right CFM for your desired displacement and high rev limit. Bigger does not mean better. A good starting point... a 350ci engine turning at 5000 RPM maxes out at just over 600 CFM (so a 650 CFM carb is perfect) if you keep a perfect air/fuel ratio (just under 15:1). Bottom line on this. Revs times displacement is a contant number... the amount of fuel/air that can be sucked in during the intake downstrokes... Fuel/air has a "perfect" mixture. The perfect carb will flow just enough to hit your high rev point at the perfect mixture. Smaller, and you aren't achieving maximum power at maximum revs. Larger and you are either running too rich at stressed WOT, or not really reaching WOT under high stress.
As for injector systems, there are TPI and MPI aftermarket systems available (I listed a couple a few weeks back if you want to search). Figure a starting simple 600 CFM TPI injector system starting around $1200 for the kit (complete from fuel pump, regulator, hoses, controller, computer, intake, through wiring). Figure a high end MPI system with all of the above to run $1800 to $3000+ depending on the flow volume and quality.
bill.
Super Moderator
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,212
From: KC, MO area
RE: Engine Question
ORIGINAL: 78buckshot
A real good example is the motor in my stock 1978 L48, this is the base(low) horsepower engine at 185 hp, 8.5 to 1 compression ratio, now I haven't had the oil pan off but I bet it's a four bolt main block based on the casting number, I have built and am currently building a 383 using a block from a half ton chevy truck with the same casting number as the vette motor that is a four bolt block,
A real good example is the motor in my stock 1978 L48, this is the base(low) horsepower engine at 185 hp, 8.5 to 1 compression ratio, now I haven't had the oil pan off but I bet it's a four bolt main block based on the casting number, I have built and am currently building a 383 using a block from a half ton chevy truck with the same casting number as the vette motor that is a four bolt block,
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 31
From:
RE: Engine Question
I have nothing of value to add to this conversation, but I have to praise wrwalke for the chrome rant that had me laughing out loud. The sad thing is somehow there is a market for all of the stuff he mentioned.
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 31
From:
RE: Engine Question
Wait! I do have something to add. Cyclic I have an '82 and I followed the fuel pump upgrade and regulator adjustment detailed at the CrossfireInjection Vault.
http://www.crossfire.homeip.net/
I found that the stock pump was only putting out 8 psi (it is supposed tobe 13 psi) and after following the tech articles, Ihaveseen big improvementsin power. It is totally worththe effort!
http://www.crossfire.homeip.net/
I found that the stock pump was only putting out 8 psi (it is supposed tobe 13 psi) and after following the tech articles, Ihaveseen big improvementsin power. It is totally worththe effort!
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,328
From: Dickson, TN.
RE: Engine Question
ORIGINAL: ax
Very true Starship!
Most of your smaller STP type , and "peeing on" stickers aregimmicks. They come with all sorts of wild HP claims, but the numbers just aren't there. While they may make your car look cool, they just are not worth the expence. Your better off saving up for a HOOKER or MSD sticker. They provide good style with some decent HP numbers to back it up.
If your looking for the big power ,MOROSO stickers addabout 200 HP....IF you have an early one.....the later stickers were only ratedto add about 145 HP because of the EPA mandated lower quality ink. Thrush muffler stickersadd the most HP at about 265 but are becoming harder to find ,and the maket is being flodded with cheap aftermaket Thrush stickers, so be careful if the deal seems "to good to be true".
The biggest misconception is the windsheild sticker......windsheild stickers are more about torque than true HP. While they do add some HP you'll really notice the difference in highway "roll on".
Choose your stickers carefully and you will be rewarded with a car that notonly gets you to the next light faster, but will do it in style!!!!!
In the next segment wewill look at the advantages that neon lights can make in relation to added downforce and better handling.
Very true Starship!
Most of your smaller STP type , and "peeing on" stickers aregimmicks. They come with all sorts of wild HP claims, but the numbers just aren't there. While they may make your car look cool, they just are not worth the expence. Your better off saving up for a HOOKER or MSD sticker. They provide good style with some decent HP numbers to back it up.
If your looking for the big power ,MOROSO stickers addabout 200 HP....IF you have an early one.....the later stickers were only ratedto add about 145 HP because of the EPA mandated lower quality ink. Thrush muffler stickersadd the most HP at about 265 but are becoming harder to find ,and the maket is being flodded with cheap aftermaket Thrush stickers, so be careful if the deal seems "to good to be true".
The biggest misconception is the windsheild sticker......windsheild stickers are more about torque than true HP. While they do add some HP you'll really notice the difference in highway "roll on".
Choose your stickers carefully and you will be rewarded with a car that notonly gets you to the next light faster, but will do it in style!!!!!
In the next segment wewill look at the advantages that neon lights can make in relation to added downforce and better handling.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 52
RE: Engine Question
As i mentioned...the STP sticker is a gimmick.....they sold them cheap, and everyone had one,(was part of the Pep Boysperfomance package if I remember correctly)but thetriple "P"as it was known just didn't proform. Like the saying goes....you get what you pay for.
The Winston Cup sticker on the other hand was for the serious tuner, and while the HP nubers were impressive on the older motors, most people didn't have the skills required to properly place this sticker and therefore negated much of the potential HP gain. In the right hands the Winston Cup could but up big numbers, but the tendecy for people to just slap it onwithout properly cleaning the mating surfaces and miss-alingnmentsadly led toalot of badreviews and it was eventually dicontinued.
The Crane Cams sticker......now that was a dimond in the rough. Solid performance and style in one package. In stark contrast to the Winston Cup, this could be set up by even the most novice mechanic with surpisingly good results. In the hands of askilled tuner they could put up numbers on par with the Moroso sticker, and combined with the Trush sticker made for one of the best combo's on the Saturday night strip.
I don't have any info on the Iskidendrin, or scheaffer.....but I will do some research I see what I can find on them.
AX
The Winston Cup sticker on the other hand was for the serious tuner, and while the HP nubers were impressive on the older motors, most people didn't have the skills required to properly place this sticker and therefore negated much of the potential HP gain. In the right hands the Winston Cup could but up big numbers, but the tendecy for people to just slap it onwithout properly cleaning the mating surfaces and miss-alingnmentsadly led toalot of badreviews and it was eventually dicontinued.
The Crane Cams sticker......now that was a dimond in the rough. Solid performance and style in one package. In stark contrast to the Winston Cup, this could be set up by even the most novice mechanic with surpisingly good results. In the hands of askilled tuner they could put up numbers on par with the Moroso sticker, and combined with the Trush sticker made for one of the best combo's on the Saturday night strip.
I don't have any info on the Iskidendrin, or scheaffer.....but I will do some research I see what I can find on them.
AX