Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

What are the pros/cons of keeping a stock/original C3 stock/original? I have a '69 coupe that is numbers matching (engine, transmission, differential) original paint and interior.She's an L-46 with an M-21. I have upgraded the radio with one from Eckler's so I didn't have to cut the bezel and I have the original (which works great). I did pull the A.I.R. system off because it rotted out and was too expensive to replace. That's pretty much it. Any thoughts?

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

"I think it's up to you. Some cars are so complete it seems blasphemous to modify them but others are modified already. I have an old '65 Galaxy 500 no post fastback 390 4speed car that is absolutely factory complete and it would be a shame to modify it. on the other hand I have a '73 stingray that was modified by a previous owner so it would be very costly to make it original again...so I'm not. Like I said it is up to you.

What ever you do just don't crush them. now that is blasphemous."

As far as the pros and cons...I guess it would depend on the condition and value of the car in it's original state VS the same as modified. It has been my experience that a car that is heavily modified at a high cost will almost never get back what has been put into it.See it every year at Barret-Jackson.

It really depends on the car/truck. numbers of production , type mods, cost of mods, ability to return to original state of being,rarity when new, rarity now, condition, model, special edition, etc., etc., etc..There are always exceptions in both directions.

IE: old run of the mill Vega, 4 cyl, normal wear and tear of a 35 year old car, clean but not perfect shape...not worth much. Take said Vega and drop a 350 in it and it's likely worth much more. But on the other hand say you have an old Cosworth Vega in original condition with more than normal wear and tear...worth quite a bit. Take said Cosworth Vega clean it up and pull out the Cosworth 4 cyl and drop in a 350....not worth as much.

I believe your '69 would be worth more original than modified, but again it depends on what it takes to make it/keep that way.

Cheers

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

Blueshark, I appreciate your input, but I don't care about Fords and Vegas. This is a Corvette Forum.Not Fords. Not Vegas. I want to know how members feel about stock vs. modified Corvettes. That's all.

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

I think "shark" posted a very good starting point to this topic. (I think he used the Ford and Vega only as general examples stating the worth, both financial and personal preference, and not to discuss those makes and models or to ruffle anyone's feathers.) Like I stated in another post, I feel that the craftsmanship is the most important thing. In this way, you can do a 'Vette great justice eitherkeeping it stock or modifing it to the max. I was friends with a guy back in '73 who had a beautiful '65 with a convertible/ hard top. It was super clean and all original. He built it for C/Gas (NHRA) and put a Keith Black fuel injected 327 in itwith a Smothers Brothers rear and custom paint. I loved the car in it's original garb, but it was a beauty after being modified as it was done right.
My question for this topic is: What modifications are needed to get the mechanical part of the '81 'Vette rear (gears, clutches, U-joints, etc) to withstand about 500-530 hp? I'm going to start research on this question and any input would be greatly appreciated. This is something that I'll need to know in the not TOO distant future.

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

I may be wrong, but to my understanding, the dif on a '81 is no dif than the dif in a early '70's BB Vette. I would think though, that if you're really goin' to pump up the horses, you would want to beef up the rear componants.

Keepin' it stock? As mentioned before. Greater value retention. You can though, drop 60g's and still have a 40g car. You have to spend your restor money very wisely.
Personally, I've thown out the idea of building an investment to sell later. I'm buildin' the "Starship" to be my car, andI really don't care if anyone else likes it.
Some will like it, others won't. ;)

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

mrggrm.......

Well, Excuse me for posting. I guess I'll just keep My f^%$kin' mouth shut ! Do what ever the hell you want with your precious" '69, semi original, VETTE". But you better put the radio back and get the A.I.R. system replaced, after all if it didn't come from the factory like that then it ain't original, now is it?. Your arrogance and condescension is not going to make you many friends around here. Stock vs Modified works for all cars. So the pros and cons are the same and respect is respect.I guess we better never talk about anything but vettes here any more. Vettes are not the most sought after or valuable thing on the market, and to be factual, not the best engineered nor built. The good folks on this forum do own cars other than Vettes.I own 18 vehicles and only two of them arevettes. I'll just avoid your posts. Thanks.

See there... didn't even mention another make at all.


Ya know what?......Disregaurd what I just wrote and read this........B M!

Sorry!.... but you ratteld the cage not me.

Where are all of these "twitchy, I'm better than you"@#$% coming from?

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

Ouch!
Wecould be talkin' about Radio Flyers, the concept is still the same. ;)
Stock vs mod, works for guitars too. Still the same concept. At least he didn't mention V-dubs, or some rice car. :D

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

Blueshark, I'm not better than anyone else. I've never claimed to be. I may have gone too far in complaining about discussing other cars on this Corvette forum. I do realize that some forum members discuss them as an example of other problems that may have arisen. For that, I'm terribly sorry. Please forgive me. If I seem arrogant in discussing my car believe me it is not arrogance. Sir, it is pride. I'm proud that I have been able to keep it as original as I'm financially able to. As I'm sure most of the people on this forum knowit'snot easy or cheap. If I had bought the car as rolling stock with no engine or tranny it would have been much easier to do whatever I wanted to do with it. However, I do believe that some members of this forum are too eager to advise new members that have bought their first Corvette to modify their cars for performance without fully understanding the situation. If a person came on this forum and toldus that he had just inherited a '68, 427, Tri-Pac, numbers matching, good looking car, but he wanted to change engines.Whatwould you tell him? I'd tell himthat he's crazy. What would you tell him? Pardon me, but I don't believe that this forum fully discusses the pros and cons of modifying a Corvette. (by the way Blueshark there is a difference between pros and cons) I deeply respect the folks who've built their 'Vettes the way that they want them. I've never said that I didn't. When Texas Jim came on talking about an "original" car Ijust wanted him to be aware of the ups and downs. He owns it, he can do whatever he wants with it. I never said that he couldn't. You guys own yours, you can do whatever you want. But, when a person comes on this board asking advice from Corvette owners I think that we should give them all sides, not just one.

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

O. K., back on topic. :eek:
Where is your heart? Is it in the sanctified realm of the "keep it stock", or do ya lean toward the sublimely radical. This is where the pros and cons really lie.
Nuthin' like a real clean original, but there are those of us that prefer "Extra Crispy".
The latter costs more to keep goin', gas prices and all, but the upfront outlay of cash for an original, puts them out of reachfor most people.
Ex:
If I had put out 17 to20 gs for a numbers matching car, I wouldn't have been able to afford to do any resto, lots of bucks can go a short way. So, I bought a clunker and am slowly bringin' 'er up to be a real ground pounder. Besides, I love workin' on 'er. Just my opinion, don't cha know, so it all rolls back to you, and what you like. :)

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

you can have it both ways. i have 68 327 bored 30 over competition valve job, 1970 LT1 370 H.P. heads, 750CFM edelbrock carb, edelbrock intake. dyno 430H.P. 420 ft. lbs torque. but i have orignal heads carb intake. i rebuilt all orignal parts, painted them ,and put them away. except for block being bored, i can put car back to original. with your 69 being so original, you could do the same

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

Original or Modified. I have not read one post where anyone is telling me they just bought a Vette and they are in the process of removing the aluminum manifold and putting back the stock one, or that they are taking off the headers to put back the cast iron manifolds or anything like that. I think that 99.9 percent of us wanted a Vette and found one that was in our price range and we were happy with that. I've been at shows were I was parked next to a "Mint" condition Vette and the owner has put on 100 miles in 5 years, it was trailered in and he never drives it! I drive my car daily and have almost 30,000 miles in 6 years. Do whatever you please to your car and enjoy it! PG.

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

Its ok Dave ,I like your car.Everyone has thier own ideas whether stock or modified ,the idea is to enjoy the car and the friendship of thepeople who enjoy them. Personally my car was so trashed I don't feel the least bit guilty about modifying it. I want a car I can enjoy building then enjoy driving. I am not one to have something sit around and not use it. But that is just me. You all have a nice day now ya hear,and play nice !!!

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

PG i totally agree, most people want H.P. I know if i ever sell my vette, no one is going to take the aftermarket goodies off the motor and put the original parts back on. but they can if they want because i have the original parts, and i know by experiance it makes your car worth more money. i always remind people that a car is only original once! so build the hell out of it!! I hope to get 500H.P. out of my little small block, im almost there.

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

I agree with Copley, but I go one step farther... :D If I am going to modify a car that might have some value in the future, I generally "pickle" the entire engine (and trans if I am swapping that out too), and start the new "lump" fresh. For the cost of a new shortblock (about $1k or so), you have retained the original just as you found it. Most folks replace heads, intake, headers, carbs... about the only piece most folks keep is the shortblock. Well worth the extra $1k in my opinion, and the best part is that you can drive the car with the old lump until you finish building the new lump and just do a swap.

Now... Anyone have a spare Super CobraJet that I can swap into my Bricklin this winter? :D I'm actually thinking about pulling the 351w and FMX and throwing in an LS2 and 4L60 if I can't find a decent blue oval combo that I can shoehorn in.

bill.

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

Starship, I love all Corvettes. When I go to the shows I look at all of them. This one is my third. I had a '69 ragtop that was stolen soon after I bought it. I'm sure that I won't be as lucky as that Posten guy that got his '68 back last year. That was beautiful! The second one was totalled when I wasstopped at a red light and was rearended by a drunk driver in a four door Chrysler. But they've all been '69's. Iwas fortunate, I got her in '74. Paid $2900for her. It was a daily driver for twelve years. She's got over 400,000 thousand miles on her now. I've rebuilt the engine twice myself but the last time I had it done in a very good shop. And, no, it wasn't cheap. I feel I have an obligation to the car. She's taken me to a lot of places and never left me stranded. I'm not dissing anyone that builds their 'Vette. You're helping to preserve a legend. After all, there's only one true American sports car.

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

A lot of us just can't leave well enough alone. :eek:
...If I just added this or that, I could get more horses. It's kinda like, who can spit the furthest? :D( and look good doin' it! ;))

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

Starship. I get the meaning.

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

I feel like you guys are giving up on a topic that could serve everyone well. I figured that in due time, this topic couldserve asa reference for either direction someone could go with their 'Vette,-One reason I posted the "beefing -up the rear end of my 'Vette" question under this topic instead of starting a new one. The last two posts are like the last little steam left here. I don't think it's a problem of "no input." As a fly-on-the-wall, I think the topic started out as a debateon; which is the better direction.
How about; along with tips, people could voice their opinions on specifics like: what size jets run best in a stock "so snd so" carbon a '65 327 for ______application. Or, the "air-gap" intake is better than the Victor jr. on this certain engine for ________application. And also some other ideas from you guys on what would work besides "doggin' "each other. Anyway...how about it???

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

I'm not givin' up, just not sure which direction to take at this intersection. :eek:
How about this.....
202 fuelie ( DOUBLE HUMPER ) heads made the SB a legend. The 202's, a good intake, a 650, and some headers were def mods that didn't cost that much, improved performance, and did not adversely effect value. :)( I just happen to have a set lyin' in reserve, for the rebuild on my 350 that came out of the "Starship". )

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

My humble opinion on the topic of Stock vs. Modified is that it depends on the car and the owner. Personally, I bought the 69 L46 (sans engine) to build as I wanted it. I wanted a good dependable weekend or evening cruiser. I put a GM crate 350 in with a Weiand intake, Holley 670 Street Avenger, Summit HEI Tach Drive Distributor, Portell's Aluminum radiator with dual electric spal fans. Everything else was replaced. I replaced all fourwheel bearings, brakes (incl e-brakes), rotors, calipers, lines, M/C and booster, fuel tank, fuel lines, all suspension parts, body mounts, wiring harnesses, lights, vacuum lines and actuators, you name it, I replaced it. The body and convertable top are theonly things that I didn't mess with. Except the hood (Replaced it with an L88 to give additional clearance for the manifold and carb setup).It took 14 months to complete and I drive it all the time.I did the same thing with the 69 Camaro SS and the wife has been driving it since2001. Now for the original side of me. If the Corvette or Camaro had been nearly intact, I would have gone to the original side and kept them that way. When I found both cars, I was looking for a blank canvas to paint.

The value of modified vs. original is still dependent on the car. If you have a 69 base coupe with an automatic it will be worth less than a 69 convertable 4 speed with a non original big block. Value is and always will be based on what someone is willing to pay and is controlled by the market.

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

thank you L46. your last paragraph is right on point. it sums this whole debate up, plain and simple.

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

I'm not opposed to anyone modifying their car. They can do anything that they want to it. It is up to the owner what he does. I love Corvettes, all of them,but I'd like some of them to remain true to the original idea that Duntov had. A true American sportscar. So, he built the Corvette. Do the C-3s match todays engineering? Of course not. Can you upgrade to a better system? Sure. I'd just like some folks to appreciate the true value of their car.

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

Modify........ It makes the car that much more fun to drive!

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

True value is relative. I have about 9gs in the "Starship", but it would take a lot more than that, to get 'er away from me! ;)I literally have a lot of blood and sweat in my baby! :)
Don't get me wrong here, I admire the original/stock Vette, and what it takes to maintaina pristeen treasure. [sm=hail.gif]

RE: Stock/Original vs. Modified
 

Speaking of stock 'Vettes, did anyone see the car auction in Phoenix, Arizona on TV yesterday? They had a black '67 'Vette convertible, raced at"Sebring,"one of twentyproduced. It looked like a regular big block street'Vette with factory side pipes,but it had the L-88 427. ALL FACTORY ORIGINAL. The top bid was $1,550,000 but didn't sell as the owner was looking for atleast $1,700,000. LOL What a car and what a price. I felt good that an american car was actually worth more than most of the foreign jobs.
I suppose that I'm somewhat contrary to most as I have an all original 'Vette, the only thing not original factory equipment is the exhaust system and two of the brake calipers, ( I rebuilt the other 2 calipers, the master cylinder and the alternator so that the car had the original components)but my plans are to mechanically modify it quite extremely. I will save all the original stuff.