RE: The Honda New Comers?
 

Uh...oh!!!
I did use a four letter word though......"TWIT"!!! [:o]

Next time, test the water before jumpin' in.;)

If you guys had just let it go, none of these hard feelings would have come about. Now everyone on both sides are forming opinions about the other. I'm sure there are those who have made up their mind that ALL Honda owners are idiots, and some feel that ALL Vette owners are jerks.
We have some guys here, that drive imports, that have our respect because they are true motor heads, and appreciate all cars for their potential. As do most of us, including me!
Why did this all take place?, because ONE guy f@rted in church. :eek:

SHOOT THE WHOLE CONGRIGATION!!! SEND 'EM ALL TO HELL! :D:D:D

RE: The Honda New Comers?
 

Sazaaaam!

RE: The Honda New Comers?
 

I find these people particularly annoying. I notice one recently claimed that ". . . the flatter your car corners the more weight is shifted the outside tires . . "

Entire generations of Formula 1 car designers would be horrified to hear this, after all the trouble and innovation they have gone to to keep their cars as flat as possible so some weight stays on the inside during high-G turns.


The raw stupidity of idiots in large groups never ceases to amaze me.

RE: The Honda New Comers?
 

:D:D:DFrom one "idiot" to another...........This "idiot", is glad, not to be alone, Lee! :D:D:D

RE: The Honda New Comers?
 

[/align][/align]
You can say it is me, no need to be coy.

But please further elaborate, I am wrong. I'd like to gain more insight about my mistake. My wording mightbe horrible, but there is no need to call names for the sake of all forum members. If you are so appalled by the "raw stupidity of idiots", you should avoid speaking condescendingly and provide a good example of communicating with others on this forum. I appreciate your email by the way. I hope no one took my bad advice.

Let me ask this though, is it not true that an anti-sway bar (which primarily fights body roll, therefore making your car corner flatter) transfers load from the inside tire to the outside tire for the duration of a turn? more specifically in situations as increasing front anti-sway bar stiffness, "weight" as you so put it, is taken from the front inside tire and planted to the front outside tire, correct? Also which increases understeer, I might add. And am I wrong that the front outside tire is going to have to carry the work of the front inside tire? and by carrying increase load, will the tire not generate more heat?

On my last note I want to note that cornering flat can also be achieved by altering roll center, spring rates, as well as a variety of other techniques. I admit my statement is misleading, but a large majority of car enthusiasts, increase sway bar stiffness as one of the first upgrades.[/align]

RE: The Honda New Comers?
 

Sway bars have more to do with turn in and transient response ("sway") than ultimate lean or cornering capability.

RE: The Honda New Comers?
 

More -

If you seriously want to learn about suspensions and handling, it can't be done with short answers here: it is a truly complicated issue and most "conventional wisdom" is wrong. It's very complicated and it very much depends what you want. For real handling I'd pick a soft suspension with good roll, actually, but tough bushings and sway bars. It is a myth that stiff suspensions are always the answer -- they are usually only an answer in the sense of being the only path to better handling once you've locked in the rest of the design, etc.

anyway . . . don't try to learn this stuff by standing around talking about cars with friends, even so called experts whose claim to fame is that they have spent more on their cars than you -- most of what you will here will be wrong or misinterpreted. Get info from some good references: read good books on the subject. Here are four among those I have that may be available.

Competition Car Suspension -- Allan Staniforth. This is a bible on pure race car suspension design, wrien nearly 20 years ago and still considered the best book of "formula 1"and extreme handling car suspension design. Maybe too much for street cars (which, though modified, start with stock suspensions, but it covers the real top end of what car design trties to do.

Car Suspensions at Work -- Jeffery Daniels. This book is hard to find, written some years ago, but very good because it goes over very well the basic suspensions in cars (MacPherson struts, etc.) and how to tune them for more handling, etc.

Chassis Engineering - Herb Adams. A bit more technical but pretty good at getting into the real details.

There are much deeper boosk, pure engineering books like Vehcile Dynamics and Control and R. Rajamani, but they are mostly for college courses in auto design, etc. I'd recommend Daniel's book if you can find it and Staniforth's regardless. Also, some time goiogling or seraching amazon.com will probably find some other books on the subject.

Finally, the very god of automobile handling is of course Colin Chapman (the founder of Lotus). This is a link to a serious book on how and why he designed his cars the way he did. It will not be easy to understand without some preliminary learning from the other books, but it you understand all ofthis, you know cars.

http://www.amazon.com/Colin-Chapman-.../dp/1855328720

RE: The Honda New Comers?
 

thank you lee, if i may call you that. i appreciate your effort and time in pulling refrences for me. i hope we'll meet each other on the track one day. i have much to learn =)

RE: The Honda New Comers?
 

Well, well, :eek:...............I hear a whole dif tune bein' played now. ;)

Lee, you never cease to amaze me with the info you bring to CF. [sm=hail.gif]
I never read any books, I just picked up info from drivers and builders with more experience than I. On the track you'd think we were bitter enemies, but in the pits, we all worked together to keep the new guys running. [sm=icon_rock.gif]