Dear Uncle Sam, I own 10 trucks but because the economy is slow I had to lay of 10 drivers, can you bail me out.
Answer: Sorry PG, you had a bad business plan, the lay off of only 10 people does not impact the economy enough for us to bail you out.

Oh thanks Uncle Sam, maybe AIG pays there people $1,000,000 a year so I should go broke while I tell my $40,000 per year people aren't worth it and they are all laid off.

PG.

Hey PG - I could not have said it any better. I think that a lot of Americans resent the bail outs and the corporate millionaires who jump ship (with a golden parachute) when their ships are sinking.

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OK, I have tried not to chime in on this issue with the auto companies but I am having a hard time understanding where everyone is coming from once they are presented with the fallout that will affect America. Let me just throw some hard facts out there for all who really don't understand the magnitude of this situation.

Let me say first of all that what happens in the automotive industry affects each and every one of us.
-About one out of every 10 people in America is employedina service that is related to
the U.S. auto industry.
- 732,800 Employees in the U.S. auto industry
- 740,000 Employees in U.S.brand dealerships
- 775,000 Retirees and surviving spouses
- 2,000,000 Recipients of health care benifts
- The domestic auto industry is the largest U.S. purchaser of : steel, aluminum, iron, copper,
plastic, electronics and computer chips
- $156 BILLION in purchase of parts, materials, and servicies in all 50 states
- $10 BILLION in taxes annually generated by auto vehicle retail sales
- 20% ($690 BILLION) of U.S. retail sales are auto related
- $21.1 BILLION in annual Social Security contributions by auto employees
- $24.7 BILLION in personal income taxes paid by industry employees

These are some of the FACTS I have found I'm sure there are a ton more. The fallout is staggering for the U.S. and each and every taxpaying american. When I see BILLIONS of dollars being poured out overseas to help other countries, with less of an uproar than what I am hearing about aiding our own industries, I really become confused. We have aliensillegally eneteringinto our country, finding ways to go on employment, food stamp programs, & free health care, causing hard working people to endure higher taxes and again we don't seem to have as much passion in these matters as we do for our own industry. Again something seems wrong with this picture.

Now I am not saying that the auto industry is without fault, by no means. I'm sure the greed throughout the industry by both management and has played a part in the situation and needs to be corrected if the industry is to survive. The products, at times, left alot to be desired in both style and quality, and at other times they have been iconic (see corvetteforums.com)
. I believe everyone connected with the industry had a hand in the decline in one way or another not to mention the politicians that you andI elected to represent our voices. To me that is all water under the bridge now and adds nothing to moving forward with the advancement of the american society.

As I understand it this is notfree government grantmoney, this is a loan to be repaid by the borrower.Hummm.... Where would all of us be without the opportunity to borrow money?? With this loanthere should definately be someconditions and monitoring.

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This american would rather take a chanceseeinghis moneyinvested in an american industry, that has done so much to shape America, than to rebuild countries that threaten our very existence or support people who illegally steal our tax dollars, health insurance and identities. Waving a flag and being a proud american is more than that. It means sacrifices in every sense of the word. I could not justify in my own mind that I had a chance to help my fellow americans but chose not to because of mistakes they made in the past. Just can't do it people!!

 

No one wants to see GM go under, and lets just say that the facts you listed are correct.
775,000 retiriees
2,000,000 recipients of health care, just the cost of those two must be stagering. Some have said that GM is no longer a auto manufacturer but a retirement and health care provider.
Gm has 8 divisions but has a market share of only 20%.
They had to or should of realized that as market share shrank they could have done away with some of those divisions and gotten rid of the fleet of executives in those divisions that were pulling in big salaries.
Detroit South as the import manufacturers are called have a younger work force, they dont have to pay pensions, yet. They also pay there workers less, have fewer divisions and have a larger market share.
I dont want to see GM go under but to give them $25 Billion with no strings attatched is just a loan that they will never be able to pay back.
PG.

 

I agree that we have been pouring money into foreign economies when we have been neglecting our own, this is nothing new, it has been going on since WWII. We have also been rather heavy handed with our foreign policies - which brings another question to mind - Why did we hand Kuwait and it's oil resources back to the Kuwaiti's after Saddam snatched it all away from them, without any strings attached? Any other country and we would have said "it's ours.....we want it and we need it (oil) so here's what you are going to do for us (seeing as how we just saved yer a$$)."
So when are we going to put an end to the welfare state that America has become?
I'm sorry, but when I see some (minority) female breeding so she can have guaranteed income, housing, health care and food at my expense I get pissed. She is going to sit home, watch TV, support a boyfriend, do drugs and have more babies while I work without health insurance to support her? WTF!?!?!?
I do not disagree with the FACT that the fallout from the auto industry will be widespread - but when is enough (charity) enough? Once again, people like myself who have our own small businesses and are also finding ourselves squeezed by the current situation are fed up with having to bear the burden AS USUAL. [sm=icon_beat.gif]
So PARDON ME if I am a little put off by all of the corporate bail outs. It needs to stop some place and some time soon!

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So when are we going to put an end to the welfare state that America has become?
I'm sorry, but when I see some (minority) female breeding so she can have guaranteed income, housing, health care and food at my expense I get pissed. She is going to sit home, watch TV, support a boyfriend, do drugs and have more babies while I work without health insurance to support her? WTF!?!?!?
I do not disagree with the FACT that the fallout from the auto industry will be widespread - but when is enough (charity) enough? Once again, people like myself who have our own small businesses and are also finding ourselves squeezed by the current situation are fed up with having to bear the burden AS USUAL. [sm=icon_beat.gif]


I agree with you in part dv8. Our country has it's faults also. I too am a small business owner who has the same concerns as you when it comes to the big squeeze on us. Though sometimes it is very hard to keep afloat, with the economy the way it is now and has been for the last couple of years, I can't begin to imagine what might happen to our businesseswhen you put the whammy on that many people in the auto industry and afiliate companies. There won't be the monies or resources around to keep some of the small business people in business. The demand for our services will surely suffer. While the whole situation turns my stomach, I still must keep the big picture in focus. Providing for myself and my family is first and foremost and I feel as though we have to do all we can to preserve what we have right now. I don't know what the future has in store for us any more than you or anyone else, butI do know letting an industry, as widespread as the automotive world, go by the wayside is not a devastation I want my family, or myself to experience. I have worked to hard for the last twenty years to build my business to provide for us, to let it go to hell without trying everything possible.

 

Listen up, GM, Drof, and Cry-sler,.......

Chapter 11!
Don't chall think it's time to restructure?
Re-negotiate your contracts.
I have to pay my own medical, and I work for a world wide company,
why not the auto workers.

It really doesn't matter what is done, the U.S. is going to take a hit, on this one. [&o]

I haven't heard anything said, as to global impact.
Guess what,U.S. auto makersin Mexico's and Canada's ecconomies, will surely have a huge impact there, as well as businesses over seas.
We live in interesting times, to say the least. [&:]
Watch very closely, you ain't seen nuthin yet.

 

Hey Dave... add Amtrak to your list... as taxpayers we have been paying their bill and keeping them on the rails for years. And the cost to ride just keep on climbing.

And since we are on the subject of things that burn our butts... how so we get those TV commercials with those fat f*&%s boasting that they settled their $90,000+ delinquent tax bills ( that they obviously never intended on paying in the first place) for pennies on the dollar off our boob tubes? What with that and the ease at which someone can declare bankruptcy these days, I will never get paid. Yet my tax bill always arrives... and is paid on time...

Whatever
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Difficult, frustrating times....

 

I think conditions should be put on the 25 bil. for the auto makers.....like maybe use most of it to bring the jobs back to the US and reopen the plants and employ REAL American citizens. Maybe more Americans will be working and could afford a car. Our bed-wetting liberal politicians in DC need to learn how to say "NO" and stop sending money out of the US. Why should we borrow money from China, of all places, and then just give it away to some other crying shame of a country that probably shouldn't even exist in the first place. NAFTA and all the other so called "free trade" treaties need to go. It's funny to me that we have to pay these useless countries just so we can sell our goods there, but they pay no tariffs at all. Same goes for all the candyass Hollywood types doing there thing over seas. Whats wrong with helping American children? and American families? Bill Gates has several foundations to give grants for starting/helping businesses, but none for American citizens, WTF!!!. Around here the "politically Correct" say that the illegals do a lot for our economy...I call BS on that. They live 30 to a house. which they trash,and send 95% of all earnings back to their third world homes. HTF is that "good for our economy"? I will not even go into the whole "SS for illegals" thing! Keep US dollars in the US....it's pretty simple if DC would grow a backbone and quit letting these little ****-ant countries dictate their "Political Correctness". Good thing I'm not the President Elect.

As for the whole "Quality is there if you can afford it" thing...I call BS there too. In my line of work I builda better product by hand the "old school" way and I can do it cheaper than the big CNC shops. It takes me @ 8 months to produce a set of 40' tools where it takes them about 3 weeks. They have almost no labor cost, and their fee is $1400-$1800 more per foot for a less complete product. Technology makes it possible for manufacturers to produce their products much cheaper with less laborbut greed makes the price go up. I bet if you could get the information you might see that the cost to produce an auto has gone up less, relative to the rise in sale price, and perhaps gone down as a whole compared to previous years due tobetter technology and less labor. Just think....how can they give you 9+g's off of MSRP on a 25g's car when they do their sales????? And don't for a minute think they are losing money, 'cause they're not.

Here's one for you........We have a Coke bottling plant here. Their work force is less than half what itwas 10 years agoand their production is 5 times higher. A 20 OZ coke cost about 4 cents to produce, bottle, package and all, same as it did 30 years ago, retail maybe $.25 then,.....why is it $1.39 now??? Shouldn't it be less???

 

We, my wife and I, just purchased 3 major items. They are all going back. Not only were they inferior in quality, parts were missing and other pieces were broken. [:@]Three for three, is not a good ratio.
......and yes, they were all made in China. [:'(]
Not no more boy, if it's made in China it won't make it into my house. If we really need somethng, it better be made in the US.If not,I'll just have to improvise, or do without.