Stroker Kit
#1
12-08-2005, 09:16 AM
Stroker Kit
I've been recently trying to figure out what is going to be the best route (as far as money goes) for me to take to try and get 500RWHP N/A. I came across the SLP 402 Stroker kit the other day and I think I may go that route. Now the question I have is, would it make my life a little simpler if I purchased a used LS1 block (I've seen them on Ebay for about $400) and build that (stroke/bore, cam, heads, manifold, etc.) and then just use what ever stock parts from my current engine that don't need to be replaced? That way I can sell my stock engine to help absorb some of the cost of the build.
This is what I've come up with so far that I want to use for my project:
LS1 Block
SLP Stroker Kit (345 to 402)
AFR 225cc Mongoose Heads
1.85:1 Roller Rockers (SLP or Comp Cams)
FAST 90mm Intake Manifold and Throttle Body
Custom Cam
640 cfm MAF Sensor
LG Motorsports Longtube Headers and Off-Road X-Pipe
...and last but not least gotta get a Dyno Tune
This is all I can think of off the top of my head right now. And by the way this is just an idea, so if somebody has a better suggestion please let me know.
This is what I've come up with so far that I want to use for my project:
LS1 Block
SLP Stroker Kit (345 to 402)
AFR 225cc Mongoose Heads
1.85:1 Roller Rockers (SLP or Comp Cams)
FAST 90mm Intake Manifold and Throttle Body
Custom Cam
640 cfm MAF Sensor
LG Motorsports Longtube Headers and Off-Road X-Pipe
...and last but not least gotta get a Dyno Tune
This is all I can think of off the top of my head right now. And by the way this is just an idea, so if somebody has a better suggestion please let me know.
#2
12-08-2005, 10:02 AM
RE: Stroker Kit
I think you made a very good choice.
Buying a spare engine to get all the parts you need will make your life simpler, and save you time, but probably not save you a lot of money. With the spare LS1 you can move all the parts over to your new engine and get it assembled, then switch it out. This saves down time for the car and means a missing part of gasket won't hold the car hostage overa weekend or until UPS delivers it, etc. You can then sell what you don't use after the project is done.
Some points about the details of your plan.
1) Talk to SLP, or your dyno tuner, about a "bench tune" for your engine computer, before you start it up: you remove it (to do so you remove the front passegner side wheel, there is a panel behind the wheel, open it, unbolt, remove), UPS it to them, they write an upgrade they think will work pretty good for your car, send it back. If not them, MTI or another shop . Reason: your engine might not even run well enough to drive to the dyno shop. Way to do it> Leave the computer alone as you work on the engine. Get the new engine in the car. Try to start it. As soon as it is clear it wants to start, get it to idle if you can. Check for leaks, stuff you need to work on, then shut down and remove the computer, send it off, get it back, install. (Doing it in this way means you know, when you get it back, that if the car doesn't start it is the computer, not something else, that is screwed up).
2) Think hard about the 1.85 rockers. Yeah, I know. But you can buy cams with high lift and use 1.7 rockers. Regardless make sure your lift will fit and ask the builder of the short block to assure you have piston cut outs for the bigger valves in the AFR Mongoose heads, etc.
I suggest buying the lifters, cam, pushrods, lifters and springs as a set or as the cam amnufacturer recommends. Realize that if you go too aggresive here, you end up where I am with my 'vette: I have a typoe of very strong valve spring which is a bit brittle until warmed up, so I have to let the engine idle and work up temp a bit (i wait until both water>140 and oil> 100 before driving), which frankly is a pain. I've been told this isn't necessary (just don't rev it high when cold) but also that, no, you better do this.
3) There are so many cams out there that it is doubtful if you need a custom ground cam. Definately call SLP, Linmgenfelter, and MTI and ask for advice. You will get different recommendations because they have different approaches/persectives. If you are an old guy like me who wants smooth street behavior you'll go with Ling., a youjng guy willing to tolerate a bit of rough behavior for strip performance, SLP, a guy who likes road racing, MTI.
4) Having bought a set of the AFR 225 heads for my 408 Camaro, I recommend getting them or someone else to polish them. They come CNC machined and the surfaces are smooth but sort of rippled slightly in about 3/32 inch machining swathes. I wish I had had mine polish the edges of those swathes out to a smooth flow - not sure it would help but it couldn't hurt and would not cost much.
Buying a spare engine to get all the parts you need will make your life simpler, and save you time, but probably not save you a lot of money. With the spare LS1 you can move all the parts over to your new engine and get it assembled, then switch it out. This saves down time for the car and means a missing part of gasket won't hold the car hostage overa weekend or until UPS delivers it, etc. You can then sell what you don't use after the project is done.
Some points about the details of your plan.
1) Talk to SLP, or your dyno tuner, about a "bench tune" for your engine computer, before you start it up: you remove it (to do so you remove the front passegner side wheel, there is a panel behind the wheel, open it, unbolt, remove), UPS it to them, they write an upgrade they think will work pretty good for your car, send it back. If not them, MTI or another shop . Reason: your engine might not even run well enough to drive to the dyno shop. Way to do it> Leave the computer alone as you work on the engine. Get the new engine in the car. Try to start it. As soon as it is clear it wants to start, get it to idle if you can. Check for leaks, stuff you need to work on, then shut down and remove the computer, send it off, get it back, install. (Doing it in this way means you know, when you get it back, that if the car doesn't start it is the computer, not something else, that is screwed up).
2) Think hard about the 1.85 rockers. Yeah, I know. But you can buy cams with high lift and use 1.7 rockers. Regardless make sure your lift will fit and ask the builder of the short block to assure you have piston cut outs for the bigger valves in the AFR Mongoose heads, etc.
I suggest buying the lifters, cam, pushrods, lifters and springs as a set or as the cam amnufacturer recommends. Realize that if you go too aggresive here, you end up where I am with my 'vette: I have a typoe of very strong valve spring which is a bit brittle until warmed up, so I have to let the engine idle and work up temp a bit (i wait until both water>140 and oil> 100 before driving), which frankly is a pain. I've been told this isn't necessary (just don't rev it high when cold) but also that, no, you better do this.
3) There are so many cams out there that it is doubtful if you need a custom ground cam. Definately call SLP, Linmgenfelter, and MTI and ask for advice. You will get different recommendations because they have different approaches/persectives. If you are an old guy like me who wants smooth street behavior you'll go with Ling., a youjng guy willing to tolerate a bit of rough behavior for strip performance, SLP, a guy who likes road racing, MTI.
4) Having bought a set of the AFR 225 heads for my 408 Camaro, I recommend getting them or someone else to polish them. They come CNC machined and the surfaces are smooth but sort of rippled slightly in about 3/32 inch machining swathes. I wish I had had mine polish the edges of those swathes out to a smooth flow - not sure it would help but it couldn't hurt and would not cost much.
#3
12-09-2005, 02:53 AM
RE: Stroker Kit
Thanks for the great advice I will definitely take everything you said into consideration when I start my project. I'm not sure when I will start on my project because I have a wedding coming up in Sept. that I have to start focusing all my cash toward. I'm thinking I may just buy parts here and there until it is complete.
#4
12-09-2005, 10:58 AM
RE: Stroker Kit
I am curious, Pay2play, if you intend on actually building the engine yourself - i.e., buying a stroker kit (crank, rods, pistons) and taking apart the old engine and installing those, etc. in your own engine build up.
Not to insult you, but: a) unless you have done this before, a lot and very well, and b) unless you have all the tools AND a warm, dry place to work for an extended period of time (one where you can just lay down the tools when you get tired or pissed off, leave the car on the jack stands, close the door and lock it, and go rest), I would strongly recommend buying the entire 402 as a long- or short-block, assembled, from SLP, More Performance, or one of their competitors. These guys have the tools, know the tolerances, have fitted the nasty little mis-behaving gaskets and seals before, and have a clean-room in which to do it all.
It will probably be quite a task, if you haven't done it, just for you to install the AFR heads, intake, etc., together on a supplier-assembled short block. that is a lot of work if you do it yourself. Alos it ties up the car for a long tine.
On our 408 in the Camaro, while I've built dozens of engines in my lift, and my son (24) is a service manager at a Ford dealership who came up through the ranks as a mechanic - knows his stuff and has ALL the tools - we bought the short block assembled (HP Engineering) because they can do it better and cheaper than we can, then he put on the AFR heads, all the parts, and did all the work -- still took him close to two months to get it in the car.
-------------------
ONE FINAL PART: regardless, get a high-capacity oil pump from QTP (Quick Time Performance). this is the only aftermarket pump that is really high capacity (every other one on the market is just a stock one, ported and polished, this one IS larger and pumps 15% more oil). It will not fit in conjunction with a double roller timing chain (just install a new, heavy duty one, don't use the stock one), but I'd go with the oil pump instead.
Not to insult you, but: a) unless you have done this before, a lot and very well, and b) unless you have all the tools AND a warm, dry place to work for an extended period of time (one where you can just lay down the tools when you get tired or pissed off, leave the car on the jack stands, close the door and lock it, and go rest), I would strongly recommend buying the entire 402 as a long- or short-block, assembled, from SLP, More Performance, or one of their competitors. These guys have the tools, know the tolerances, have fitted the nasty little mis-behaving gaskets and seals before, and have a clean-room in which to do it all.
It will probably be quite a task, if you haven't done it, just for you to install the AFR heads, intake, etc., together on a supplier-assembled short block. that is a lot of work if you do it yourself. Alos it ties up the car for a long tine.
On our 408 in the Camaro, while I've built dozens of engines in my lift, and my son (24) is a service manager at a Ford dealership who came up through the ranks as a mechanic - knows his stuff and has ALL the tools - we bought the short block assembled (HP Engineering) because they can do it better and cheaper than we can, then he put on the AFR heads, all the parts, and did all the work -- still took him close to two months to get it in the car.
-------------------
ONE FINAL PART: regardless, get a high-capacity oil pump from QTP (Quick Time Performance). this is the only aftermarket pump that is really high capacity (every other one on the market is just a stock one, ported and polished, this one IS larger and pumps 15% more oil). It will not fit in conjunction with a double roller timing chain (just install a new, heavy duty one, don't use the stock one), but I'd go with the oil pump instead.
#5
12-10-2005, 02:12 AM
RE: Stroker Kit
When I said I was building the engine what I guess I really meant was buy all the parts and let one of the local shops do the labor for me. I don't have any experience to even try to tackle such a project. If I did want to do it myself I do have a friend on my job that has done a number of engine builds on both Ford and GM cars and could also provide the dry place and tools for the job, but I don't want to tie up his garage space and time so I will most likely have a shop called Tony's Corvettes here in Maryland to do the work for me. I haven't had the chance to yet, but shortly I planned to take a trip to their shop and discuss my plans with them, just to get another opinion from the guys that do this for a living and have tested the parts I plan to use.
#6
12-10-2005, 12:11 PM
RE: Stroker Kit
Good.
Carefully compare the price of a buying a short block complete from SLP, or someone else, against the cost of having the shop do it. The SLP kit will be very well built by people that do several a week. It may actually cost less.
Then, too, I've had several bad experiences being held hostage, for more money, by womeone who has my parts and block and suddenly calls and says something, usually legit, about not having anticipated something or whatever: on stroker engines the usual story is that they didn't realize my crank would be so big they've had to grind down places in the block for it to fit (very common, by the way) or whatever . . . can get real messy.
I note from your profile that you live in MD -- to far away to use any shops I know here in North Carolina. Good luck.
Carefully compare the price of a buying a short block complete from SLP, or someone else, against the cost of having the shop do it. The SLP kit will be very well built by people that do several a week. It may actually cost less.
Then, too, I've had several bad experiences being held hostage, for more money, by womeone who has my parts and block and suddenly calls and says something, usually legit, about not having anticipated something or whatever: on stroker engines the usual story is that they didn't realize my crank would be so big they've had to grind down places in the block for it to fit (very common, by the way) or whatever . . . can get real messy.
I note from your profile that you live in MD -- to far away to use any shops I know here in North Carolina. Good luck.
#7
12-10-2005, 12:42 PM
RE: Stroker Kit
The shop I plan to use called Tony's Corvettes from what I understand is rated in Vette Magazine as one of the top 10 in the nation. I have also talked to a few people at local car shows who have praised their work. There is also another shop close to me called E.L.D. Performance who also has a pretty good reputation. The owner of E.L.D. was actually on the show PINKS a few weeks ago with one of his older Mustangs and got to take home a nice new ride that night.
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